4 ms·

> No the point is to create disincentives for people to immigrate (...) Yeah, and the disincentives consist of giving non-citizens a hard time for no reason.

> No the point is to create disincentives for people to immigrate (...) Yeah, and the disincentives consist of giving non-citizens a hard time for no reason. > so fewer people will do it. You're not disagreeing with OP. You're just trying to whitewash all the xenophobia behind the motivation.

rayiner 5mo ago
[flagged]
- deleted 5mo ago
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- TimorousBestie 5mo ago
  > Wanting to control immigration flows so immigrants don't change American culture isn't "xenophobia.“ Such desires can be and have been xenophobic. You’re welcome to prove that they’ve never been. I would like to see you revise the Federalists’ own history for once, instead of someone else’s. > It's the moral right of people in a democracy to control the flow of people to limit cultural change. You’ve elided a premise along the lines of “moral rights cannot be exercised in a xenophobic manner,” which is incorrect.
  - rayiner 5mo ago
    Immigration changes society. People who like their society the way it is, and don’t want it to become more like the places the immigrants come from, are entitled to vote against that. They don’t owe you any explanation.
- deleted 5mo ago
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- locknitpicker 5mo ago
  [flagged]
  - motbus3 5mo ago
    This account you are all arguing against is a totally political account here. Check the profile
- motbus3 5mo ago
  > It's the moral right of people in a democracy to control the flow of people to limit cultural change. Tell me what is changing about American culture. I am curious to know.
  - hollerith 5mo ago
    The US has become less of a high-trust society than it was. In the Social Capital Community Benchmark Survey (SCCBS), 40 US communities were studied, some high in ethnic diversity, some low. In the communities high in diversity, people trusted neighbors less, had fewer close confidants, volunteered less, and withdrew from community life more generally. One of the principals (namely, Robert Putnam) behind this study described this behavioral pattern with the phrase “hunker down.” In diverse neighborhoods, according to his analysis, residents of all ethnic groups became more socially isolated, including from members of their own ethnic group.
  - rayiner 5mo ago
    Many things, but for example the taboo against showing off your money has diminished. I know someone whose dad probably worth half a billion dollars. I knew her for several years and had no idea. That’s very different from my culture (south asian) where social hierarchy is very important and heavy emphasis is placed on signaling your wealth to establish your place in the hierarchy. When I grew up in northern VA in the 1990s, that taboo was still strongly in place. There were lots of rich people (my dad once ran into Dick Cheney at the CVS). But people drove old Volvos. I only ever saw one Porsche growing up, and it was an old one owned by my neighbor who was an engineer who could do his own work on it. Since then there’s been a huge immigration from south asia and the middle east. And the houses got way more opulent, luxury stores started opening in the malls, people started driving Maseratis, etc.
    - motbus3 5mo ago
      And how can you attribute that to immigration and not something else? Many things culturally comes and goes in waves. How can you tell them apart?

rayiner 5mo ago

[flagged]

deleted 5mo ago
[deleted]
TimorousBestie 5mo ago
> Wanting to control immigration flows so immigrants don't change American culture isn't "xenophobia.“ Such desires can be and have been xenophobic. You’re welcome to prove that they’ve never been. I would like to see you revise the Federalists’ own history for once, instead of someone else’s. > It's the moral right of people in a democracy to control the flow of people to limit cultural change. You’ve elided a premise along the lines of “moral rights cannot be exercised in a xenophobic manner,” which is incorrect.
- rayiner 5mo ago
  Immigration changes society. People who like their society the way it is, and don’t want it to become more like the places the immigrants come from, are entitled to vote against that. They don’t owe you any explanation.
deleted 5mo ago
[deleted]
locknitpicker 5mo ago
[flagged]
- motbus3 5mo ago
  This account you are all arguing against is a totally political account here. Check the profile
motbus3 5mo ago
> It's the moral right of people in a democracy to control the flow of people to limit cultural change. Tell me what is changing about American culture. I am curious to know.
- hollerith 5mo ago
  The US has become less of a high-trust society than it was. In the Social Capital Community Benchmark Survey (SCCBS), 40 US communities were studied, some high in ethnic diversity, some low. In the communities high in diversity, people trusted neighbors less, had fewer close confidants, volunteered less, and withdrew from community life more generally. One of the principals (namely, Robert Putnam) behind this study described this behavioral pattern with the phrase “hunker down.” In diverse neighborhoods, according to his analysis, residents of all ethnic groups became more socially isolated, including from members of their own ethnic group.
- rayiner 5mo ago
  Many things, but for example the taboo against showing off your money has diminished. I know someone whose dad probably worth half a billion dollars. I knew her for several years and had no idea. That’s very different from my culture (south asian) where social hierarchy is very important and heavy emphasis is placed on signaling your wealth to establish your place in the hierarchy. When I grew up in northern VA in the 1990s, that taboo was still strongly in place. There were lots of rich people (my dad once ran into Dick Cheney at the CVS). But people drove old Volvos. I only ever saw one Porsche growing up, and it was an old one owned by my neighbor who was an engineer who could do his own work on it. Since then there’s been a huge immigration from south asia and the middle east. And the houses got way more opulent, luxury stores started opening in the malls, people started driving Maseratis, etc.
  - motbus3 5mo ago
    And how can you attribute that to immigration and not something else? Many things culturally comes and goes in waves. How can you tell them apart?