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The Russian empire tried communism. It was better than what they had before or since. The Chinese tried communism. It worked far better for them than what they

The Russian empire tried communism. It was better than what they had before or since. The Chinese tried communism. It worked far better for them than what they had before.

cyberax 5mo ago
> The Russian empire tried communism. It was better than what they had before or since. No, it was not better. Quite objectively.
- bluecheese452 5mo ago
  By what metrics? Life expectancy rose during communism and fell afterwords. Are you seriously going to try and argue it was better during the Czarist times?
  - cyberax 5mo ago
    Russia lost nearly 2 decades of development post-WWI. And had a widespread hunger in 1930-s with 4-8 million people dead (we _still_ don't know the accurate number). Even just looking at the industrial growth rates, the socialistic economy of the USSR was inferior to many capitalistic economies starting from the same base. E.g. South Korea or Japan. Your data about life expectancy is also plainly wrong: https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SP.DYN.LE00.MA.IN?locations=RU https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SP.DYN.LE00.MA.IN?locat...
    - bluecheese452 5mo ago
      You are willfully missing the point. You can’t compare Russia to South Korea to claim communism bad. Russia has and will screw up every system it tries. You need to compare communist Russia to capitalist Russia. There the comparison looks much less favorable. Also your graph proves my point. The giant drop in life expectancy is when it transitioned from communism to capitalism.
      - cyberax 5mo ago
        > You are willfully missing the point. You can’t compare Russia to South Korea to claim communism bad. Why? I absolutely can. DPRK vs South Korea is an even better example. > Also your graph proves my point. The giant drop in life expectancy is when it transitioned from communism to capitalism. Well, duh. And capitalism _swiftly_ outpaced the previous rate. As somebody who experienced Soviet dentistry and medicine first-hand, I'm not at all surprised.
        bluecheese452 5mo ago
        Sure then I can compare China to Somalia to claim capitalism bad. DPRK is a chinese buffer state run by a cult of personality where South Korea is a strategic allied US country. Like yes I too would take South Korea’s position? It has nothing to do with capitalism. Did it? Doesn’t look too swift to me. Also why not compare Chinese life expectancy now to before communism? Looks pretty good.
rfrey 5mo ago
In the opinion of the champaign socialists in the West. In the opinion of people who lived under that regime... Not so much.
- bluecheese452 5mo ago
  You think life and the Czars or under Czar Putin is better?
ThrowawayR2 5mo ago
The Iron Curtain was a real thing, as was the Berlin Wall. Successful social and economic systems do not need to execute their own citizens for attempting to escape.
- bluecheese452 5mo ago
  How did Russia fair under the Czars? How are they fairing now?

The Russian empire tried communism. It was better than what they had before or since. The Chinese tried communism. It worked far better for them than what they had before.

cyberax 5mo ago

> The Russian empire tried communism. It was better than what they had before or since. No, it was not better. Quite objectively.

bluecheese452 5mo ago
By what metrics? Life expectancy rose during communism and fell afterwords. Are you seriously going to try and argue it was better during the Czarist times?
- cyberax 5mo ago
  Russia lost nearly 2 decades of development post-WWI. And had a widespread hunger in 1930-s with 4-8 million people dead (we _still_ don't know the accurate number). Even just looking at the industrial growth rates, the socialistic economy of the USSR was inferior to many capitalistic economies starting from the same base. E.g. South Korea or Japan. Your data about life expectancy is also plainly wrong: https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SP.DYN.LE00.MA.IN?locations=RU https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SP.DYN.LE00.MA.IN?locat...
  - bluecheese452 5mo ago
    You are willfully missing the point. You can’t compare Russia to South Korea to claim communism bad. Russia has and will screw up every system it tries. You need to compare communist Russia to capitalist Russia. There the comparison looks much less favorable. Also your graph proves my point. The giant drop in life expectancy is when it transitioned from communism to capitalism.
    - cyberax 5mo ago
      > You are willfully missing the point. You can’t compare Russia to South Korea to claim communism bad. Why? I absolutely can. DPRK vs South Korea is an even better example. > Also your graph proves my point. The giant drop in life expectancy is when it transitioned from communism to capitalism. Well, duh. And capitalism _swiftly_ outpaced the previous rate. As somebody who experienced Soviet dentistry and medicine first-hand, I'm not at all surprised.
      - bluecheese452 5mo ago
        Sure then I can compare China to Somalia to claim capitalism bad. DPRK is a chinese buffer state run by a cult of personality where South Korea is a strategic allied US country. Like yes I too would take South Korea’s position? It has nothing to do with capitalism. Did it? Doesn’t look too swift to me. Also why not compare Chinese life expectancy now to before communism? Looks pretty good.

rfrey 5mo ago

In the opinion of the champaign socialists in the West. In the opinion of people who lived under that regime... Not so much.

bluecheese452 5mo ago
You think life and the Czars or under Czar Putin is better?

ThrowawayR2 5mo ago

The Iron Curtain was a real thing, as was the Berlin Wall. Successful social and economic systems do not need to execute their own citizens for attempting to escape.

bluecheese452 5mo ago
How did Russia fair under the Czars? How are they fairing now?