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I hope these companies aren't in for a shock when the younger generation rejects their brands https://www.theverge.com/ai-artificial-intelligence/920401/gen-z-a

I hope these companies aren't in for a shock when the younger generation rejects their brands https://www.theverge.com/ai-artificial-intelligence/920401/gen-z-ai https://www.theverge.com/ai-artificial-intelligence/920401/g... If negative perception towards AI grows, either because of negative experiences after having it forced on them, or as people's utility bills skyrocket, or as the environmental impact becomes more apparent, they might find that what appeals to shareholders doesn't impress the people who usually pay for their products.

CobrastanJorji 4mo ago
My kid was an excited Duolingo user who immediately cut it off entirely as soon as he heard that they were doing something with AI. That was all it took. He heard "Duolingo's AI now" on some YouTube video, and it was immediately dead to him. I don't think people understand just how viscerally negative the perception of AI is for the youth.
- thunky 4mo ago
  [flagged]
  - cyclopeanutopia 4mo ago
    And I'm frequently amazed how tone deaf tech people are and how disconnected from the general population. ;)
    - thunky 4mo ago
      OK got it. Its perfectly fine to automate away everyone else's job...except their own and their immediate family's. Then we're supposed to be anti-tech and this site becomes a political one. That is unless you bring up wars or fascism or genocide. Because politics is off limits.
      - wu2Fe7sp 4mo ago
        this is a forum for a venture capital firm, everything here is political no matter how the average poster like to pretend it isn't and complaining won't override the financial incentives involved
      - cyclopeanutopia 4mo ago
        Different people come here for different things, I guess. I'd bet that most people like the actual "hacker" part: tinkering with fun projects, examples of great creativity, obscure mathematical puzzles, etc. Greedy sociopaths from SV who don't care about impact on the society around them must be a small minority, I don't believe there is that many of them in the world, otherwise it would have collapsed already.
  - vitally3643 4mo ago
    You're being downvoted because you appear to be not asking genuinely and you're trying to cast doubt instead of seeking to understand. Because at this point there's really no excuse for not having any idea why people are mad about AI. If you can't guess it's because you're intentionally ignorant of the problem. Because "just asking" is a specific strategy used do doubt and discredit anyone you disagree with.
    - thunky 4mo ago
      > You're being downvoted because you appear to be not asking genuinely I literally said I was asking genuinely. It's either one of two reasons imo: 1. Their son hates "ai slop" and doesn't think AI is useful. 2. Their son is afraid of not being employable. I see #1 the most here. But I suspect it's a front because the posters don't want to admit #2. Hence my question. I figured it's easier for someone to admit someone else is afraid than admit they are.
      - techblueberry 4mo ago
        Why would no one want to admit #2? I’m afraid. Also it feels like you responded to “people are downvoting you because it feels like a gotcha” with “yes, it is in fact a gotcha”
        thunky 4mo ago
        I'm just saying I don't see that much here. Most of the negativity is something like "its just a token generator". I don't care about downvotes. I'm just said that from my perspective anything positive about AI on this site will be met with them. What a twist for a tech site.
        bigstrat2003 4mo ago
        > from my perspective anything positive about AI on this site will be met with them. What a twist for a tech site. Yes, people are hostile towards a crappy technology that doesn't work as advertised, and is looking like it will cause job shortages because companies are trying to lean on the tech even though it doesn't work. That shouldn't be remotely surprising.
  - moshun 4mo ago
    Not the person you asked, but my nephews and mentees (all under 18), very plainly see it as the destruction of their own future careers (regardless of field), assimilation of everything meaningful humans have ever created into a copy machine , massive privacy violations, wrecking the environment and generally run by some of the biggest sociopaths in human history. When looking at it practically over the last few years, I think a lot of younger folk don’t see any upsides. I’m very pro-AI myself, but think the kids are quite right in their perspective, and that the tech companies designing and pushing this tech are in for a bad time when this wave finally comes crashing down on them.
    - thunky 4mo ago
      That makes sense and matches my perspective, thanks for answering. I don't normally see anyone on this site admit they are afraid of losing their jobs. My comment here repeats that: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48260369 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48260369 Personally I don't think the environment is a factor, because young people seem just fine with crypto. I also don't think the privacy issue is a factor because young people don't have much that can be stolen, and if anything they're the ones stealing (movies etc) without guilt.
      - ReliantGuyZ 4mo ago
        That's an interesting point regarding crypto. My guess is that most young people have very low exposure to crypto, with it being kind of a niche subcultural thing at this point after its height of cultural relevance in 2021, whereas AI is simply everywhere and is inescapable.
- llbbdd 4mo ago
  Duolingo is a game, they publish papers studying the addictive properties of their product I comparison to slot machines. They are incentivized heavily to not produce fluent learners. If he's being pushed in another direction to learn, for whatever reason, all the better for him.
  - danaris 4mo ago
    Duolingo used to be a very effective gamified language learning system. Then they decided they cared more about profits than providing a quality product. Now they are best known for their dark patterns.
    - llbbdd 4mo ago
      Yep, I noticed recently that on their official research portal they stopped publishing anything publicly in I think 2021. The last couple of articles before that were along these lines: https://research.duolingo.com/papers/yancey.kdd20.pdf https://research.duolingo.com/papers/yancey.kdd20.pdf I assume all the research after this point is too revealing to publish.
    - runarberg 4mo ago
      I wouldn’t call them effective as much as motivating. I think for people who would not be motivated otherwise, this methodology is fine actually, as the alternative is probably nothing. However if you are motivated, almost any other method is more effective then DuoLingo (or alternatives), including more effective then the old DuoLingo with the forums and everything.
- dfxm12 4mo ago
  It's been a little over a year, but back when I was using the app, Duolingo advertised their own AI features within the app itself. I wonder if they still do, and if so, why it took watching a YouTube video for it to sink in...
- PearlRiver 4mo ago
  Apparently Samsung sells washing machines with AI. Yeah...
techblueberry 4mo ago
I see AI marketing as a negative indicator. Because everyone should be doing AI it’s not a differentiator. It implicitly means you don’t know what value you provide. It’s like advertising you’re cloud powered because you use AWS. Which makes recall a bunch of companies doing. What value do you provide, not what tech do you use.
- recursive 4mo ago
  > everyone should be doing AI I don't understand this at all. I'd consider a no AI message a positive signal. Like what bandcamp is doing.
  - techblueberry 4mo ago
    I spoke indelicately.
  - dodu_ 4mo ago
    It's funny how many of the startup-pilled HN crowd have completely abandoned the widely accepted principles like "solve a real problem" or "make something people want" in favor of solution-first thinking "how can I shove AI into something" which was always looked down upon. This industry has lost its collective mind with this hype cycle. I'm not even against the technology, but this is all just shockingly reckless.
    - disqard 4mo ago
      I'm not advocating for being this way... but if you're starting a company primarily so you can have an "exit strategy", then it is natural to primarily virtue-signal to Wall St (instead of "solve a real problem") tl;dr: this AI cargo-culting is ultimately unsurprising to me.
    - JumpCrisscross 4mo ago
      To be fair, there is a lot of acquisition capital looking for plays to throw at a wall and see if it sticks. The set of start-ups explicitly built as features, not standalone products, has always legitimately been non-zero. And when you get concentrations of acquisition capital, like we have now among the AI majors, you’ll see preference for that—versus the traditional product mode-of start-up. Building a proper product is still good advice. But if you think you can slip that and flip a feature into a quick sale, that’s a higher ROI.
j-pb 4mo ago
[dead]
DCLAEX 4mo ago
[flagged]

CobrastanJorji 4mo ago

My kid was an excited Duolingo user who immediately cut it off entirely as soon as he heard that they were doing something with AI. That was all it took. He heard "Duolingo's AI now" on some YouTube video, and it was immediately dead to him. I don't think people understand just how viscerally negative the perception of AI is for the youth.

thunky 4mo ago
[flagged]
- cyclopeanutopia 4mo ago
  And I'm frequently amazed how tone deaf tech people are and how disconnected from the general population. ;)
  - thunky 4mo ago
    OK got it. Its perfectly fine to automate away everyone else's job...except their own and their immediate family's. Then we're supposed to be anti-tech and this site becomes a political one. That is unless you bring up wars or fascism or genocide. Because politics is off limits.
    - wu2Fe7sp 4mo ago
      this is a forum for a venture capital firm, everything here is political no matter how the average poster like to pretend it isn't and complaining won't override the financial incentives involved
    - cyclopeanutopia 4mo ago
      Different people come here for different things, I guess. I'd bet that most people like the actual "hacker" part: tinkering with fun projects, examples of great creativity, obscure mathematical puzzles, etc. Greedy sociopaths from SV who don't care about impact on the society around them must be a small minority, I don't believe there is that many of them in the world, otherwise it would have collapsed already.
- vitally3643 4mo ago
  You're being downvoted because you appear to be not asking genuinely and you're trying to cast doubt instead of seeking to understand. Because at this point there's really no excuse for not having any idea why people are mad about AI. If you can't guess it's because you're intentionally ignorant of the problem. Because "just asking" is a specific strategy used do doubt and discredit anyone you disagree with.
  - thunky 4mo ago
    > You're being downvoted because you appear to be not asking genuinely I literally said I was asking genuinely. It's either one of two reasons imo: 1. Their son hates "ai slop" and doesn't think AI is useful. 2. Their son is afraid of not being employable. I see #1 the most here. But I suspect it's a front because the posters don't want to admit #2. Hence my question. I figured it's easier for someone to admit someone else is afraid than admit they are.
    - techblueberry 4mo ago
      Why would no one want to admit #2? I’m afraid. Also it feels like you responded to “people are downvoting you because it feels like a gotcha” with “yes, it is in fact a gotcha”
      - thunky 4mo ago
        I'm just saying I don't see that much here. Most of the negativity is something like "its just a token generator". I don't care about downvotes. I'm just said that from my perspective anything positive about AI on this site will be met with them. What a twist for a tech site.
        bigstrat2003 4mo ago
        > from my perspective anything positive about AI on this site will be met with them. What a twist for a tech site. Yes, people are hostile towards a crappy technology that doesn't work as advertised, and is looking like it will cause job shortages because companies are trying to lean on the tech even though it doesn't work. That shouldn't be remotely surprising.
- moshun 4mo ago
  Not the person you asked, but my nephews and mentees (all under 18), very plainly see it as the destruction of their own future careers (regardless of field), assimilation of everything meaningful humans have ever created into a copy machine , massive privacy violations, wrecking the environment and generally run by some of the biggest sociopaths in human history. When looking at it practically over the last few years, I think a lot of younger folk don’t see any upsides. I’m very pro-AI myself, but think the kids are quite right in their perspective, and that the tech companies designing and pushing this tech are in for a bad time when this wave finally comes crashing down on them.
  - thunky 4mo ago
    That makes sense and matches my perspective, thanks for answering. I don't normally see anyone on this site admit they are afraid of losing their jobs. My comment here repeats that: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48260369 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48260369 Personally I don't think the environment is a factor, because young people seem just fine with crypto. I also don't think the privacy issue is a factor because young people don't have much that can be stolen, and if anything they're the ones stealing (movies etc) without guilt.
    - ReliantGuyZ 4mo ago
      That's an interesting point regarding crypto. My guess is that most young people have very low exposure to crypto, with it being kind of a niche subcultural thing at this point after its height of cultural relevance in 2021, whereas AI is simply everywhere and is inescapable.
llbbdd 4mo ago
Duolingo is a game, they publish papers studying the addictive properties of their product I comparison to slot machines. They are incentivized heavily to not produce fluent learners. If he's being pushed in another direction to learn, for whatever reason, all the better for him.
- danaris 4mo ago
  Duolingo used to be a very effective gamified language learning system. Then they decided they cared more about profits than providing a quality product. Now they are best known for their dark patterns.
  - llbbdd 4mo ago
    Yep, I noticed recently that on their official research portal they stopped publishing anything publicly in I think 2021. The last couple of articles before that were along these lines: https://research.duolingo.com/papers/yancey.kdd20.pdf https://research.duolingo.com/papers/yancey.kdd20.pdf I assume all the research after this point is too revealing to publish.
  - runarberg 4mo ago
    I wouldn’t call them effective as much as motivating. I think for people who would not be motivated otherwise, this methodology is fine actually, as the alternative is probably nothing. However if you are motivated, almost any other method is more effective then DuoLingo (or alternatives), including more effective then the old DuoLingo with the forums and everything.
dfxm12 4mo ago
It's been a little over a year, but back when I was using the app, Duolingo advertised their own AI features within the app itself. I wonder if they still do, and if so, why it took watching a YouTube video for it to sink in...
PearlRiver 4mo ago
Apparently Samsung sells washing machines with AI. Yeah...

techblueberry 4mo ago

I see AI marketing as a negative indicator. Because everyone should be doing AI it’s not a differentiator. It implicitly means you don’t know what value you provide. It’s like advertising you’re cloud powered because you use AWS. Which makes recall a bunch of companies doing. What value do you provide, not what tech do you use.

recursive 4mo ago
> everyone should be doing AI I don't understand this at all. I'd consider a no AI message a positive signal. Like what bandcamp is doing.
- techblueberry 4mo ago
  I spoke indelicately.
- dodu_ 4mo ago
  It's funny how many of the startup-pilled HN crowd have completely abandoned the widely accepted principles like "solve a real problem" or "make something people want" in favor of solution-first thinking "how can I shove AI into something" which was always looked down upon. This industry has lost its collective mind with this hype cycle. I'm not even against the technology, but this is all just shockingly reckless.
  - disqard 4mo ago
    I'm not advocating for being this way... but if you're starting a company primarily so you can have an "exit strategy", then it is natural to primarily virtue-signal to Wall St (instead of "solve a real problem") tl;dr: this AI cargo-culting is ultimately unsurprising to me.
  - JumpCrisscross 4mo ago
    To be fair, there is a lot of acquisition capital looking for plays to throw at a wall and see if it sticks. The set of start-ups explicitly built as features, not standalone products, has always legitimately been non-zero. And when you get concentrations of acquisition capital, like we have now among the AI majors, you’ll see preference for that—versus the traditional product mode-of start-up. Building a proper product is still good advice. But if you think you can slip that and flip a feature into a quick sale, that’s a higher ROI.

j-pb 4mo ago

[dead]

DCLAEX 4mo ago

[flagged]