8 ms·

The Next Step for GNOME 3: Content applications

32 points by sciurus 14y ago

vacri 14y ago
- Open file viewer - Select 'Large Icon' view - Maximise Window Where's the revolution? Unless it's to take choice away from those of us that don't feel the urge to maximise every damn thing and use the PC like a tablet.
keithpeter 14y ago
From the comments on the Music application page on the wiki "One of the problems we have in Banshee when using our gridview which is fairly similar is style to elements of the design is that albums for which we cannot acquire artwork (which tends to be a lot) make the Ui look and feel very inefficient and unfinished. It would be nice if the design had a definite fallback for generating album art in those cases." The mock ups show a fascinating model of the Gnome project's 'imagined user'. Most real users will not I think reflect the choices shown. I'll be trying to 'live' in these applications when they become available.
yason 14y ago
Content based user interface. Hasn't worked before and won't work this time. The Gnome people are taking something I'm not. Such a pity, I used to love Gnome and I still love Gnome 2.x.
- stevenleeg 14y ago
  A lot of what they're showing off (in terms of design) has been similarly implemented in OS X (through iTunes, iPhone, etc.) and it's been very successful. How has it not worked in the past and why don't you think they can pull it off?
  - zalzane 14y ago
    Because the kind of people who tend to use linux have very different needs than the kind of people who use OSX.
    - Zash 14y ago
      Gnome is meant for normal computer users. Not power users or whatever you mean by "people who tend to use linux".
      - chris_wot 14y ago
        That wasn't the original intent of GNOME. Frankly, GNOME is misnamed. It had a great start, but they seem to have lost their way. Removing options does not make user experience better, it merely limits it. I don't want to be limited.
      - chris_j 14y ago
        Does anyone have any data on the number of normal users vs power users that Gnome actually has? The worry has to be that, if Gnome stops targeting "people who tend to use Linux" then there's a strong chance that they'll fail to attract enough "normal computer users" to make it worthwhile.
makmanalp 14y ago
Wow, that looks way more polished than I recall linux ever looking. Good that there is more pressure across vendors to make things look better.
mercurial 14y ago
I'm not sure what they are suggesting here. I see five applications with a similar looking startup screen and a music and video player with very basic controls. What is Documents supposed to do ? Let you edit any kind of document (good luck with that) ? Is this a viewer ? Having essential applications follow a set of UI guidelines is nice, but it's hardly revolutionary, and it sounds like the goal here is simplicity. Unfortunately, it's often the case that something too simple turns out in practice to be useless. In any case, it looks the target is people with a lot of screen real estate to waste.
- jasox 14y ago
  No, Gnome apps(Documents, Music, and rest of crap) are not following siplistic philosophy, they are followitg easinest. There is huge difference between easy and simple. Gnome alternative for KISS - KIED (keep it easy dumbass)
  - stcredzero 14y ago
    > not following siplistic philosophy, they are followitg easinest. There is huge difference between easy and simple. If you typed that on a tablet, which is supposed to be "simpler," oh the irony! (Typing on the iPad gets me like that too.)
olgeni 14y ago
> whether it is the means to share holiday photos [...] or play that new album you just bought. "What happened to just starting Emacs?"
- pjmlp 14y ago
  The desktop happened.
  - olgeni 14y ago
    Heard about that. Isn't it the thing you use to move Emacs frames around?
    - pjmlp 14y ago
      I thought twm was enough for that.
viseztrance 14y ago
Feels like pouring salt on a wound. I don't want to downplay this, but rhythmbox shutters every single day while listening to a higher quality radio stream just because you can't adjust the buffer size.
SiVal 14y ago
Apple was a niche player with Macintosh, but along comes iPod and then iOS, and it's the king of the world. Now, each release of the Mac OS is another step in the transition to iOS. Why improve that ridiculous "Finder" with a dual pane view for organizing your files when you can go the other way and eliminate access to files and folders altogether, like iOS? You never did understand "folders" anyway, did you? Soon, you won't have to. Just point at the pretty pictures and buy something from our store, and you'll feel better. Microsoft now wants to be a toymaker, too, like Apple. Computers are soooo last century. Computers are for people who are literate; the future is about serving the "if you see what you want, poke it with your finger" market. What I'd like to suggest is that all Linux platform developers seriously consider going the opposite way and providing real "computers" to those holdouts, like me, who still need to get real work done and know how to navigate a real file system and even [gasp] a command line. I'm not saying that no Linux device should compete with iOS, just that, if the mainstream makers are going to run away from power users, desktop Linux has a huge opportunity to become the "computer for the rest of us, version 2" by going the opposite direction and intentionally focusing on being a power tool for smart people with work to do.
- PommeDeTerre 14y ago
  The GNOME crew just do not get it. There is near-universal hatred for everything about GNOME 3. We aren't talking about nitpicking, either. People outright hate everything about GNOME 3. Existing GNOME users are fleeing to Xfce, KDE and other environments like never before. GNOME 3 surely isn't bringing in that many new users, if it has even brought in any. It's clear that the GNOME project is tearing itself apart. Most long-time users have given up hope of things getting better. We can't blame them, considering that each GNOME-related announcement brings bad news (even if the GNOME developers mistakenly consider it to be good news). This announcement just reinforces the feeling that bad ideas rule at the GNOME project these days.
  - PieSquared 14y ago
    I'm not sure what you're saying is true. I, personally, am a huge fan of GNOME 3 and everything the project has done and plans on doing. Most of my friends (Linux users) are also satisfied, and have no major problems with it. But we usually don't talk about it on Hacker News or other message boards, because we're happy with what we have. People who are unhappy are much more likely to speak out than those who are content. Clearly, GNOME 3 has annoyed a lot of people, judging by how many people are angry. But I think that generalizing and saying there's "near universal hatred for everything about GNOME 3" is a bit unfair.
cookiecaper 14y ago
Cinnamon and/or MATE are the real future for GNOME users. GNOME's mainline developers have their heads in the clouds, thinking if they make it shiny enough they'll be the next Steve Jobs, and that's not anything like reality. Of course, it's fine to conduct experiments like gnome-shell. It's just too bad that they feel like they need to torpedo the whole platform and sink it all together, removing features others depend on (most recently: fallback mode goes away in next major release, 3.8) simply because they're irritated that someone is messing with their precious, beautiful design. I almost think everyone is just going to switch to KDE and I think we might be better for it; Qt is definitely superior to GTK.
aw3c2 14y ago
A quote from https://afaikblog.wordpress.com/2012/11/07/fantastic-progress-in-every-detail-matters/ https://afaikblog.wordpress.com/2012/11/07/fantastic-progres... (...) details matter: we have a nicer looking run dialog now. The most important feature of this is that it now has a close button, which means that people have an escape route if they accidentally open it.
stcredzero 14y ago
In the words of Walt Kelly: http://herdingcats.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341ca4d953ef013481cb7b9e970c-800wi http://herdingcats.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341ca4d953ef013481cb...
macspoofing 14y ago
Please don't. You're already behind the times with touch and gesture support. Focus on that. Windows 8 may not have gotten it completely right, but they are at least on the right side of history.
lampe 14y ago
i dont get it... why? whats bad about a file browser? and what if i got mixed things in a folder? i got music a cover for the music album and the lyrics in a pdf. now i must open 3 apps and find the these things? instead of just click on them? why not make the file browser better? get a good desktop search etc... sry but i just dont get the gnome-shell desktop you can call me stupid ;)
jejones3141 14y ago
Note to GNOME developers: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Not_invented_here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Not_invented_here

32 points by sciurus 14y ago

vacri 14y ago

- Open file viewer - Select 'Large Icon' view - Maximise Window Where's the revolution? Unless it's to take choice away from those of us that don't feel the urge to maximise every damn thing and use the PC like a tablet.

keithpeter 14y ago

From the comments on the Music application page on the wiki "One of the problems we have in Banshee when using our gridview which is fairly similar is style to elements of the design is that albums for which we cannot acquire artwork (which tends to be a lot) make the Ui look and feel very inefficient and unfinished. It would be nice if the design had a definite fallback for generating album art in those cases." The mock ups show a fascinating model of the Gnome project's 'imagined user'. Most real users will not I think reflect the choices shown. I'll be trying to 'live' in these applications when they become available.

yason 14y ago

Content based user interface. Hasn't worked before and won't work this time. The Gnome people are taking something I'm not. Such a pity, I used to love Gnome and I still love Gnome 2.x.

stevenleeg 14y ago
A lot of what they're showing off (in terms of design) has been similarly implemented in OS X (through iTunes, iPhone, etc.) and it's been very successful. How has it not worked in the past and why don't you think they can pull it off?
- zalzane 14y ago
  Because the kind of people who tend to use linux have very different needs than the kind of people who use OSX.
  - Zash 14y ago
    Gnome is meant for normal computer users. Not power users or whatever you mean by "people who tend to use linux".
    - chris_wot 14y ago
      That wasn't the original intent of GNOME. Frankly, GNOME is misnamed. It had a great start, but they seem to have lost their way. Removing options does not make user experience better, it merely limits it. I don't want to be limited.
    - chris_j 14y ago
      Does anyone have any data on the number of normal users vs power users that Gnome actually has? The worry has to be that, if Gnome stops targeting "people who tend to use Linux" then there's a strong chance that they'll fail to attract enough "normal computer users" to make it worthwhile.

makmanalp 14y ago

Wow, that looks way more polished than I recall linux ever looking. Good that there is more pressure across vendors to make things look better.

mercurial 14y ago

I'm not sure what they are suggesting here. I see five applications with a similar looking startup screen and a music and video player with very basic controls. What is Documents supposed to do ? Let you edit any kind of document (good luck with that) ? Is this a viewer ? Having essential applications follow a set of UI guidelines is nice, but it's hardly revolutionary, and it sounds like the goal here is simplicity. Unfortunately, it's often the case that something too simple turns out in practice to be useless. In any case, it looks the target is people with a lot of screen real estate to waste.

jasox 14y ago
No, Gnome apps(Documents, Music, and rest of crap) are not following siplistic philosophy, they are followitg easinest. There is huge difference between easy and simple. Gnome alternative for KISS - KIED (keep it easy dumbass)
- stcredzero 14y ago
  > not following siplistic philosophy, they are followitg easinest. There is huge difference between easy and simple. If you typed that on a tablet, which is supposed to be "simpler," oh the irony! (Typing on the iPad gets me like that too.)

olgeni 14y ago

> whether it is the means to share holiday photos [...] or play that new album you just bought. "What happened to just starting Emacs?"

pjmlp 14y ago
The desktop happened.
- olgeni 14y ago
  Heard about that. Isn't it the thing you use to move Emacs frames around?
  - pjmlp 14y ago
    I thought twm was enough for that.

viseztrance 14y ago

Feels like pouring salt on a wound. I don't want to downplay this, but rhythmbox shutters every single day while listening to a higher quality radio stream just because you can't adjust the buffer size.

SiVal 14y ago

Apple was a niche player with Macintosh, but along comes iPod and then iOS, and it's the king of the world. Now, each release of the Mac OS is another step in the transition to iOS. Why improve that ridiculous "Finder" with a dual pane view for organizing your files when you can go the other way and eliminate access to files and folders altogether, like iOS? You never did understand "folders" anyway, did you? Soon, you won't have to. Just point at the pretty pictures and buy something from our store, and you'll feel better. Microsoft now wants to be a toymaker, too, like Apple. Computers are soooo last century. Computers are for people who are literate; the future is about serving the "if you see what you want, poke it with your finger" market. What I'd like to suggest is that all Linux platform developers seriously consider going the opposite way and providing real "computers" to those holdouts, like me, who still need to get real work done and know how to navigate a real file system and even [gasp] a command line. I'm not saying that no Linux device should compete with iOS, just that, if the mainstream makers are going to run away from power users, desktop Linux has a huge opportunity to become the "computer for the rest of us, version 2" by going the opposite direction and intentionally focusing on being a power tool for smart people with work to do.

PommeDeTerre 14y ago
The GNOME crew just do not get it. There is near-universal hatred for everything about GNOME 3. We aren't talking about nitpicking, either. People outright hate everything about GNOME 3. Existing GNOME users are fleeing to Xfce, KDE and other environments like never before. GNOME 3 surely isn't bringing in that many new users, if it has even brought in any. It's clear that the GNOME project is tearing itself apart. Most long-time users have given up hope of things getting better. We can't blame them, considering that each GNOME-related announcement brings bad news (even if the GNOME developers mistakenly consider it to be good news). This announcement just reinforces the feeling that bad ideas rule at the GNOME project these days.
- PieSquared 14y ago
  I'm not sure what you're saying is true. I, personally, am a huge fan of GNOME 3 and everything the project has done and plans on doing. Most of my friends (Linux users) are also satisfied, and have no major problems with it. But we usually don't talk about it on Hacker News or other message boards, because we're happy with what we have. People who are unhappy are much more likely to speak out than those who are content. Clearly, GNOME 3 has annoyed a lot of people, judging by how many people are angry. But I think that generalizing and saying there's "near universal hatred for everything about GNOME 3" is a bit unfair.

cookiecaper 14y ago

Cinnamon and/or MATE are the real future for GNOME users. GNOME's mainline developers have their heads in the clouds, thinking if they make it shiny enough they'll be the next Steve Jobs, and that's not anything like reality. Of course, it's fine to conduct experiments like gnome-shell. It's just too bad that they feel like they need to torpedo the whole platform and sink it all together, removing features others depend on (most recently: fallback mode goes away in next major release, 3.8) simply because they're irritated that someone is messing with their precious, beautiful design. I almost think everyone is just going to switch to KDE and I think we might be better for it; Qt is definitely superior to GTK.

aw3c2 14y ago

A quote from https://afaikblog.wordpress.com/2012/11/07/fantastic-progress-in-every-detail-matters/ https://afaikblog.wordpress.com/2012/11/07/fantastic-progres... (...) details matter: we have a nicer looking run dialog now. The most important feature of this is that it now has a close button, which means that people have an escape route if they accidentally open it.

stcredzero 14y ago

In the words of Walt Kelly: http://herdingcats.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341ca4d953ef013481cb7b9e970c-800wi http://herdingcats.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341ca4d953ef013481cb...

macspoofing 14y ago

Please don't. You're already behind the times with touch and gesture support. Focus on that. Windows 8 may not have gotten it completely right, but they are at least on the right side of history.

lampe 14y ago

i dont get it... why? whats bad about a file browser? and what if i got mixed things in a folder? i got music a cover for the music album and the lyrics in a pdf. now i must open 3 apps and find the these things? instead of just click on them? why not make the file browser better? get a good desktop search etc... sry but i just dont get the gnome-shell desktop you can call me stupid ;)

jejones3141 14y ago

Note to GNOME developers: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Not_invented_here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Not_invented_here