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Do you not believe developers should be paid for the work they do? And if not, what do you think the majority of people on this forum do?

by ladberg 4mo ago

jason_oster 4mo ago
Not the GP, but to me this case feels like extortion. I have the same problem with paying for extensions like Dark Reader, DeArrow, and any ad blockers. None of these apps should exist in the first place. They were created because the default state of the web is barbaric. And some developers have the gall to charge for the luxury of making the experience tolerable? And yet, I've paid for every one of these.
- iainmerrick 4mo ago
  Write your own extension, then, and make it cheaper than the others -- or free!
  - paulryanrogers 4mo ago
    I think their point is the answer to a problem a gapping wound isn't cheaper or even free bandaids. We already have regulations for accessibility and advertising. Yet they're weak in the US and rarely enforced.
    - latexr 4mo ago
      But they’re saying it feels like extortion. The problems of the web aren’t the fault of those extension developers, nor can they do anything about it besides trying to mitigate it. It’s in our best interest that they can do so sustainably, meaning charging for it. It’s not gall, they’re fighting it for themselves and making the solution available for all. That comment places a lot of blame where it doesn’t lie. It’s like calling surgeons extortionists for having the gall to charge for treating you. Yes, ideally that should be free and available to all, and perhaps if those people had the freedom to choose (e.g. having their own needs met so they didn’t have to work) they would do it. But that’s not how the system is setup, and their skills don’t translate to fixing the problem at the root. Not all of us are cut out to be politicians (and as we all know, being well-intentioned as one still doesn’t mean you have the power to enact policy).
      - throw5 4mo ago
        > It’s like calling surgeons extortionists for having the gall to charge for treating you. Yes, ideally that should be free and available to all What do you mean by "should be"? Surgery is free and available to everyone. So why would one accuse surgeons of being extortionists? So I am not sure how the surgeon comparison works. That example supports the parent commenter's point that these extensions should be free. Of course, there is still the practical question of who will do the work and how they will make a living. We can do what we do for surgeons. Maybe have a nonprofit consortium that people fund, so that it can support the extension developers. Yes, people would be spending money either way, but at least that money would be going toward a larger cause. Just like we pay taxes so the government can fund surgeons, who can then treat people.
        latexr 4mo ago
        > What do you mean by "should be"? I meant “would be”. Not that I think it makes that much difference here. > Surgery is free and available to everyone. That’s definitely not true worldwide. I think if you stop for a minute you can come up with at least one country. And even in those where it is free in public hospitals, it’s not uncommon for some to have a waitlist of years to the point you can die before it even happens. Also, did you know there are places where they don’t even have hospitals, let alone surgeons? The world is a big place, lots of disparity. > So why would one accuse surgeons of being extortionists? Even given all that, I think if you engage with the argument in good faith and steel man it instead of nitpicking, you’ll understand the point and can come up with your own example to satisfy you. Just pick a job you can’t do and have to pay for someone to fix something which wasn’t your fault or the fault of the other person. I believe you’re a smart person and could surely come up with something with little effort. > there is still the practical question of who will do the work and how they will make a living. That’s… The point. Especially for programmers, how many of us would do this shit for free, full time and beyond, for the sole purpose of benefiting others, if we had the opportunity to because we didn’t have to worry about basic needs? A large number. Way less than the number of programmers in the world right now, and that’s a good thing. > Maybe have a nonprofit consortium that people fund Fantastic idea. Are you doing it? Can you? Do you know where to start? And if you can’t, is that your fault? Should you be blamed for it? Are you an extortionist? Do you have gall for not doing it?

Do you not believe developers should be paid for the work they do? And if not, what do you think the majority of people on this forum do?

by ladberg 4mo ago

Do you not believe developers should be paid for the work they do? And if not, what do you think the majority of people on this forum do?

jason_oster 4mo ago

Not the GP, but to me this case feels like extortion. I have the same problem with paying for extensions like Dark Reader, DeArrow, and any ad blockers. None of these apps should exist in the first place. They were created because the default state of the web is barbaric. And some developers have the gall to charge for the luxury of making the experience tolerable? And yet, I've paid for every one of these.

iainmerrick 4mo ago
Write your own extension, then, and make it cheaper than the others -- or free!
- paulryanrogers 4mo ago
  I think their point is the answer to a problem a gapping wound isn't cheaper or even free bandaids. We already have regulations for accessibility and advertising. Yet they're weak in the US and rarely enforced.
  - latexr 4mo ago
    But they’re saying it feels like extortion. The problems of the web aren’t the fault of those extension developers, nor can they do anything about it besides trying to mitigate it. It’s in our best interest that they can do so sustainably, meaning charging for it. It’s not gall, they’re fighting it for themselves and making the solution available for all. That comment places a lot of blame where it doesn’t lie. It’s like calling surgeons extortionists for having the gall to charge for treating you. Yes, ideally that should be free and available to all, and perhaps if those people had the freedom to choose (e.g. having their own needs met so they didn’t have to work) they would do it. But that’s not how the system is setup, and their skills don’t translate to fixing the problem at the root. Not all of us are cut out to be politicians (and as we all know, being well-intentioned as one still doesn’t mean you have the power to enact policy).
    - throw5 4mo ago
      > It’s like calling surgeons extortionists for having the gall to charge for treating you. Yes, ideally that should be free and available to all What do you mean by "should be"? Surgery is free and available to everyone. So why would one accuse surgeons of being extortionists? So I am not sure how the surgeon comparison works. That example supports the parent commenter's point that these extensions should be free. Of course, there is still the practical question of who will do the work and how they will make a living. We can do what we do for surgeons. Maybe have a nonprofit consortium that people fund, so that it can support the extension developers. Yes, people would be spending money either way, but at least that money would be going toward a larger cause. Just like we pay taxes so the government can fund surgeons, who can then treat people.
      - latexr 4mo ago
        > What do you mean by "should be"? I meant “would be”. Not that I think it makes that much difference here. > Surgery is free and available to everyone. That’s definitely not true worldwide. I think if you stop for a minute you can come up with at least one country. And even in those where it is free in public hospitals, it’s not uncommon for some to have a waitlist of years to the point you can die before it even happens. Also, did you know there are places where they don’t even have hospitals, let alone surgeons? The world is a big place, lots of disparity. > So why would one accuse surgeons of being extortionists? Even given all that, I think if you engage with the argument in good faith and steel man it instead of nitpicking, you’ll understand the point and can come up with your own example to satisfy you. Just pick a job you can’t do and have to pay for someone to fix something which wasn’t your fault or the fault of the other person. I believe you’re a smart person and could surely come up with something with little effort. > there is still the practical question of who will do the work and how they will make a living. That’s… The point. Especially for programmers, how many of us would do this shit for free, full time and beyond, for the sole purpose of benefiting others, if we had the opportunity to because we didn’t have to worry about basic needs? A large number. Way less than the number of programmers in the world right now, and that’s a good thing. > Maybe have a nonprofit consortium that people fund Fantastic idea. Are you doing it? Can you? Do you know where to start? And if you can’t, is that your fault? Should you be blamed for it? Are you an extortionist? Do you have gall for not doing it?