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If the data centers paid for their own negative externalities instead of foisting them off on the local people, the local people wouldn't be so pissed off. Suc

by toss1 5mo ago

If the data centers paid for their own negative externalities instead of foisting them off on the local people, the local people wouldn't be so pissed off. Sucking 30% of the water from the town's water system without paying for it and reducing everyone's water pressure is not a way to make friends. Sucking gigawatts from the grid and making the rest of the people pay for the necessary upgrades is not a way to make friends. Putting up scores of loud and polluting diesel or methane generators running 24/7/365 for main power, not just backup, without mitigating the noise and pollution, so a mile away it is 70dB on someone's front porch day and night, will really piss people off. If they just pay the full actual costs of what they are doing, most people would be fine with it. And it is not like the companies putting up the data centers do not have the money to do it right. They just lack the attitude to consider their effect on others. If a new rich neighbor decided to park their semi-truck on your lawn idling all night, or pipe their sewage through your apartment water intake, you wouldn't be happy about those negative externalities either. The only "incredibly fucking stupid" thing I see here is the attitude in the post to which I'm replying.

ETH_start 5mo ago
Most of the concerns are massively overblown. For instance, new regulations require data centers to bring their own power, so they're not drawing on the grid. They are deployed off-grid. With respect to water, the new trend is closed-loop water cooling, or using treated waste water, so that it doesn't have any continual draw on the local water supply. And even the legacy data center water cooling systems that draws on local water supply consumes less than 3% of what U.S. gulf courses consume. Every industry uses water. This idea that this industry is especially bad as a consequence of that is simply ignorant. >If they just pay the full actual costs of what they are doing, most people would be fine with it. I'm skeptical that this would have any impact at all. Considering how much less data centers pollute than other industries, relative to the economic value they generate, and the disproportionate amount of hostility they receive, I don't see any kind of empirical basis for the anti-data center movement. Most of those complaining about data centers don't even know about the new 'Bring Your Own Power Supply' regulations, meaning that this is just a pretense for their opposition, not the motivation for it.
- toss1 5mo ago
  >>For instance, new regulations require data centers to bring their own power, so they're not drawing on the grid. They are deployed off-grid. I see no national regulation of actual usage (the proposed Hawley-Warren act would require only reporting. And even if some national legislation/regulation did materialize, off-grid power generation is a trend because of insufficient grid supply and throughput, and regulating grid usage does NOT solve the problems of off-grid power gen, which right now typically involves massive diesel or NatGas generators which are the actual source of massive noise and air pollution. >>With respect to water, the new trend is closed-loop water cooling, or using treated waste water Yes closed-loop water cooling is obviously better and it is good to see that trend. That does NOT solve the problem of massive water usage required for 5+ years of construction, e.g., in this town [0] >>relative to the economic value they generate Right now, that economic value is massively negative [1], possibly the greatest bonfire of money in human history. It MAY generate positive return, but just as with mini-/personal computers and the internet, end up being just the table stakes to run a business. >>see any kind of empirical basis for the anti-data center movement Start with the entirely plausible likely results of damaging society as social media has done — the exact mechanisms couldn't be predicted at the time, but certainly resulted in harm. AI is even more massively unpredictable, and in an already unstable society, there is little reason to not worry. I say that as a frequent and avid AI user who does find value in it. I absolutely cannot say fears are unfounded. >>don't even know about the new 'Bring Your Own Power Supply' regulations Those regulations are 1) at best, nascent, 2) are definitely incomplete, and 3) do not address the problems of bringing your own power, which is exactly what has trashed neighborhoods around data centers bringing their own power [2]; i.e., BYOP is part of the problem against which people are protesting. That is totally legitimate protest reasons; go read about it instead of pontificating from ignorance and false hypotheticals. [0] https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2026/05/data-center-used-30-million-gallons-of-water-without-initially-paying/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2026/05/data-center-used... [1] https://isaiprofitable.com/ https://isaiprofitable.com/ [2] https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2026/jan/15/elon-musk-xai-datacenter-memphis https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2026/jan/15/elon-musk...
  - ETH_start 5mo ago
simianwords 5mo ago
> Sucking 30% of the water from the town's water system without paying for it and reducing everyone's water pressure is not a way to make friends. Huh? What's this one? Which data centre sucks 30% of water?
- toss1 5mo ago
  This one https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2026/05/data-center-used-30-million-gallons-of-water-without-initially-paying/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2026/05/data-center-used... Not only that, while the closed-loop water-cooling systems are indeed a good idea, they do NOT solve the problem of water consumption during the years of construction, which is exactly the problem in this instance to which I was referring.
  - simianwords 5mo ago
    Where did you get the 30% figure? I think this was a mistake - it was 30 million gallons which is <1% of the county's water usage.
    - toss1 5mo ago
      It may well have been an error, good catch. In any case, whatever the amount, it was a large enough quantity pulled — unpaid — to cause the pressure in the entire system to drop, and drop enough that everyone noticed, complained, and set off the protests. And, this is NOT the data center cooling usage, this is during construction, which is expected to last ~5 years.
      - simianwords 5mo ago
        The water pressure was also not because of the datacenter but something else totally > The original county letter also referenced complaints from residents near the Annelise Park subdivision about low water pressure. > Rapson said Fayette County Water System later installed monitoring equipment in the area to track pressure levels following the complaints. > “Since we’ve been reading it, there’s been no issue,” Tinsley said. https://thecitizen.com/2026/05/11/behind-fayettes-qts-water-controversy-a-missed-meter-8000-workers-and-a-massive-construction-project/ https://thecitizen.com/2026/05/11/behind-fayettes-qts-water-... Would urge everyone to be careful and not fall into trap of believing everything at face value.
inemesitaffia 5mo ago
You're repeating a false story.
- toss1 5mo ago
  Or, more accurately, you are trying to falsify a repeatedly true story.
  - inemesitaffia 4mo ago
    It's verifiably false. And you can follow links on this post to a statement from a first party. Not like you have to hunt for information and call people like I've had to do in the past.

by toss1 5mo ago

ETH_start 5mo ago

Most of the concerns are massively overblown. For instance, new regulations require data centers to bring their own power, so they're not drawing on the grid. They are deployed off-grid. With respect to water, the new trend is closed-loop water cooling, or using treated waste water, so that it doesn't have any continual draw on the local water supply. And even the legacy data center water cooling systems that draws on local water supply consumes less than 3% of what U.S. gulf courses consume. Every industry uses water. This idea that this industry is especially bad as a consequence of that is simply ignorant. >If they just pay the full actual costs of what they are doing, most people would be fine with it. I'm skeptical that this would have any impact at all. Considering how much less data centers pollute than other industries, relative to the economic value they generate, and the disproportionate amount of hostility they receive, I don't see any kind of empirical basis for the anti-data center movement. Most of those complaining about data centers don't even know about the new 'Bring Your Own Power Supply' regulations, meaning that this is just a pretense for their opposition, not the motivation for it.

toss1 5mo ago
>>For instance, new regulations require data centers to bring their own power, so they're not drawing on the grid. They are deployed off-grid. I see no national regulation of actual usage (the proposed Hawley-Warren act would require only reporting. And even if some national legislation/regulation did materialize, off-grid power generation is a trend because of insufficient grid supply and throughput, and regulating grid usage does NOT solve the problems of off-grid power gen, which right now typically involves massive diesel or NatGas generators which are the actual source of massive noise and air pollution. >>With respect to water, the new trend is closed-loop water cooling, or using treated waste water Yes closed-loop water cooling is obviously better and it is good to see that trend. That does NOT solve the problem of massive water usage required for 5+ years of construction, e.g., in this town [0] >>relative to the economic value they generate Right now, that economic value is massively negative [1], possibly the greatest bonfire of money in human history. It MAY generate positive return, but just as with mini-/personal computers and the internet, end up being just the table stakes to run a business. >>see any kind of empirical basis for the anti-data center movement Start with the entirely plausible likely results of damaging society as social media has done — the exact mechanisms couldn't be predicted at the time, but certainly resulted in harm. AI is even more massively unpredictable, and in an already unstable society, there is little reason to not worry. I say that as a frequent and avid AI user who does find value in it. I absolutely cannot say fears are unfounded. >>don't even know about the new 'Bring Your Own Power Supply' regulations Those regulations are 1) at best, nascent, 2) are definitely incomplete, and 3) do not address the problems of bringing your own power, which is exactly what has trashed neighborhoods around data centers bringing their own power [2]; i.e., BYOP is part of the problem against which people are protesting. That is totally legitimate protest reasons; go read about it instead of pontificating from ignorance and false hypotheticals. [0] https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2026/05/data-center-used-30-million-gallons-of-water-without-initially-paying/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2026/05/data-center-used... [1] https://isaiprofitable.com/ https://isaiprofitable.com/ [2] https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2026/jan/15/elon-musk-xai-datacenter-memphis https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2026/jan/15/elon-musk...
- ETH_start 5mo ago

simianwords 5mo ago

> Sucking 30% of the water from the town's water system without paying for it and reducing everyone's water pressure is not a way to make friends. Huh? What's this one? Which data centre sucks 30% of water?

toss1 5mo ago
This one https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2026/05/data-center-used-30-million-gallons-of-water-without-initially-paying/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2026/05/data-center-used... Not only that, while the closed-loop water-cooling systems are indeed a good idea, they do NOT solve the problem of water consumption during the years of construction, which is exactly the problem in this instance to which I was referring.
- simianwords 5mo ago
  Where did you get the 30% figure? I think this was a mistake - it was 30 million gallons which is <1% of the county's water usage.
  - toss1 5mo ago
    It may well have been an error, good catch. In any case, whatever the amount, it was a large enough quantity pulled — unpaid — to cause the pressure in the entire system to drop, and drop enough that everyone noticed, complained, and set off the protests. And, this is NOT the data center cooling usage, this is during construction, which is expected to last ~5 years.
    - simianwords 5mo ago
      The water pressure was also not because of the datacenter but something else totally > The original county letter also referenced complaints from residents near the Annelise Park subdivision about low water pressure. > Rapson said Fayette County Water System later installed monitoring equipment in the area to track pressure levels following the complaints. > “Since we’ve been reading it, there’s been no issue,” Tinsley said. https://thecitizen.com/2026/05/11/behind-fayettes-qts-water-controversy-a-missed-meter-8000-workers-and-a-massive-construction-project/ https://thecitizen.com/2026/05/11/behind-fayettes-qts-water-... Would urge everyone to be careful and not fall into trap of believing everything at face value.

inemesitaffia 5mo ago

You're repeating a false story.

toss1 5mo ago
Or, more accurately, you are trying to falsify a repeatedly true story.
- inemesitaffia 4mo ago
  It's verifiably false. And you can follow links on this post to a statement from a first party. Not like you have to hunt for information and call people like I've had to do in the past.