5 ms·

It is indeed at a tipping point; we are going from engineered deliverables to throwing stuff at the wall and keeping what sticks. I wonder if the public appeti

It is indeed at a tipping point; we are going from engineered deliverables to throwing stuff at the wall and keeping what sticks. I wonder if the public appetite for the inevitable quality crash is there, though.

bdangubic 5mo ago
the public is so used to good quality software that they are in for rude awakening :)
- dwattttt 5mo ago
  And yet, quality can always get worse.
  - bdangubic 5mo ago
    it could and likely will but it’ll be in the news for a day tops and the world will move on to the “next thing.”
- lelanthran 5mo ago
  The thing is, people already have certain expectations from their software, because it is all around them. They'd revolt en-masse if their TV had the downtime of github, of if their computer had the number of successful supply chain attacks that npm enjoys. The quality may not have been good, but the market had stabilised on what the public would accept. AI changes this substantially.
  - bdangubic 5mo ago
    it absolutely doesn’t. most software is shitty and buggy. I know, have seen 30 years worth of it. just now we can write the shitty and buggy a lot faster. ask anyone that has been in the industry for awhile and they will tell you the same thing. a lot of crowd on HN write as if human-written code is any good and while there are always exception, on average, most software is shitty. if I had a dollar for every time I met someone writing software for “X” saying “dude, if you knew what I know you’d never use/do/… X” I’d be a very rich man
    - lelanthran 5mo ago
      Most software may be shitty, but users absolutely are not prepared for the level of shittiness we see in vibed projects. That's what I'm saying: users are used to a certain level of reliability. They might not be so accepting of a decline.
      - bdangubic 5mo ago
        example? or this is theoretical?
        lelanthran 5mo ago
        So many, so numerous examples. But, lets start with the C compiler written by an AI, guided by the comp[any that sells the AI. Do you really think that the average user is eady yet to accept that sort of degradation in quality?
        bdangubic 5mo ago
        C compiler written by AI is used somewhere to compile production code?
        lelanthran 5mo ago
        > C compiler written by AI is used somewhere to compile production code? That's the point - it isn't used; the quality is too poor to even replace tcc.
        bdangubic 5mo ago
        > They'd revolt en-masse if their… who is revolting? still waiting for an example of this ficticious, unfortunately often-cited fantasy… if the example is C compiler no one uses (no one even spent serious time trying to make it work either) the bar is waaaay to low for your line of thinking IMHO
- deleted 5mo ago
  [deleted]
- Zigurd 5mo ago
  Have you tried editing a speaker group in Google Home? That vibe is handcrafted and certified organic.
  - bdangubic 5mo ago
    I would rather vax my entire body than put google in my home
gdulli 5mo ago
We used to ridicule "works on my machine" thinking but now we're pivoting the whole field into essentially that, shipping what "sticks" like you said.
mikert89 5mo ago
only on hacker news, do we see the biggest innovation in tech in our lifetimes, and you get this weird cynical negativity
- smugglerFlynn 5mo ago
  “Biggest innovation in tech” at times feels like 2000 era Nokia smartphones. You got phone with circle keyboard! You got foldable phone that turns into a neat camcorder! You got mp3 player phone! All with marginal value add and having more to do with fashion than with actual innovation. Real innovation is synonymous with problem solving. The only problem tech industry is solving nowadays is keeping its bloated valuation afloat.
- happytoexplain 5mo ago
  Only on Hacker News, and everywhere else.
- codingdave 5mo ago
  I guess that depends on how old you are. The internet itself is a strong contender for being a bigger innovation. And the web. The personal computer. Smart phones, and even cell phones in general. Oh, I almost forgot GPS. And that is all just in the arena of personal computing/devices. Get outside of tech and bring in science, and we're in a completely different world. I mean, yes, LLMs are an innovation. But outside of the tech industry, they are not having anywhere near the impact on people's lives as many other inventions.
  - Ferret7446 5mo ago
    Yet. The Internet was not impactful for the average person for many years. It took a long time for even half the population to get Internet access, and it took a long time for the Web to be developed
- atmavatar 5mo ago
  In my mind, LLMs have strong parallels with self-driving vehicles. Both are impressive tech innovations with amazing future potential, and both have no shortage of evangelists that have claimed that the future is already here. Both have a swath of average joes trusting them with their lives and livelihoods, while those with enough technical knowledge realize that both can fail in unexpected and sometimes catastrophic fashion and won't use either without significant babysitting. The primary difference I've noticed, however, is that the AI evangelists also have a flair for painting a picture where everyone's jobs are eliminated, while many CEOs are already using it as an excuse for layoffs. I can see no reason why there'd be any negativity about AI.

bdangubic 5mo ago

the public is so used to good quality software that they are in for rude awakening :)

dwattttt 5mo ago
And yet, quality can always get worse.
- bdangubic 5mo ago
  it could and likely will but it’ll be in the news for a day tops and the world will move on to the “next thing.”
lelanthran 5mo ago
The thing is, people already have certain expectations from their software, because it is all around them. They'd revolt en-masse if their TV had the downtime of github, of if their computer had the number of successful supply chain attacks that npm enjoys. The quality may not have been good, but the market had stabilised on what the public would accept. AI changes this substantially.
- bdangubic 5mo ago
  it absolutely doesn’t. most software is shitty and buggy. I know, have seen 30 years worth of it. just now we can write the shitty and buggy a lot faster. ask anyone that has been in the industry for awhile and they will tell you the same thing. a lot of crowd on HN write as if human-written code is any good and while there are always exception, on average, most software is shitty. if I had a dollar for every time I met someone writing software for “X” saying “dude, if you knew what I know you’d never use/do/… X” I’d be a very rich man
  - lelanthran 5mo ago
    Most software may be shitty, but users absolutely are not prepared for the level of shittiness we see in vibed projects. That's what I'm saying: users are used to a certain level of reliability. They might not be so accepting of a decline.
    - bdangubic 5mo ago
      example? or this is theoretical?
      - lelanthran 5mo ago
        So many, so numerous examples. But, lets start with the C compiler written by an AI, guided by the comp[any that sells the AI. Do you really think that the average user is eady yet to accept that sort of degradation in quality?
        bdangubic 5mo ago
        C compiler written by AI is used somewhere to compile production code?
        lelanthran 5mo ago
        > C compiler written by AI is used somewhere to compile production code? That's the point - it isn't used; the quality is too poor to even replace tcc.
        bdangubic 5mo ago
        > They'd revolt en-masse if their… who is revolting? still waiting for an example of this ficticious, unfortunately often-cited fantasy… if the example is C compiler no one uses (no one even spent serious time trying to make it work either) the bar is waaaay to low for your line of thinking IMHO
deleted 5mo ago
[deleted]
Zigurd 5mo ago
Have you tried editing a speaker group in Google Home? That vibe is handcrafted and certified organic.
- bdangubic 5mo ago
  I would rather vax my entire body than put google in my home

gdulli 5mo ago

We used to ridicule "works on my machine" thinking but now we're pivoting the whole field into essentially that, shipping what "sticks" like you said.

mikert89 5mo ago

only on hacker news, do we see the biggest innovation in tech in our lifetimes, and you get this weird cynical negativity

smugglerFlynn 5mo ago
“Biggest innovation in tech” at times feels like 2000 era Nokia smartphones. You got phone with circle keyboard! You got foldable phone that turns into a neat camcorder! You got mp3 player phone! All with marginal value add and having more to do with fashion than with actual innovation. Real innovation is synonymous with problem solving. The only problem tech industry is solving nowadays is keeping its bloated valuation afloat.
happytoexplain 5mo ago
Only on Hacker News, and everywhere else.
codingdave 5mo ago
I guess that depends on how old you are. The internet itself is a strong contender for being a bigger innovation. And the web. The personal computer. Smart phones, and even cell phones in general. Oh, I almost forgot GPS. And that is all just in the arena of personal computing/devices. Get outside of tech and bring in science, and we're in a completely different world. I mean, yes, LLMs are an innovation. But outside of the tech industry, they are not having anywhere near the impact on people's lives as many other inventions.
- Ferret7446 5mo ago
  Yet. The Internet was not impactful for the average person for many years. It took a long time for even half the population to get Internet access, and it took a long time for the Web to be developed
atmavatar 5mo ago
In my mind, LLMs have strong parallels with self-driving vehicles. Both are impressive tech innovations with amazing future potential, and both have no shortage of evangelists that have claimed that the future is already here. Both have a swath of average joes trusting them with their lives and livelihoods, while those with enough technical knowledge realize that both can fail in unexpected and sometimes catastrophic fashion and won't use either without significant babysitting. The primary difference I've noticed, however, is that the AI evangelists also have a flair for painting a picture where everyone's jobs are eliminated, while many CEOs are already using it as an excuse for layoffs. I can see no reason why there'd be any negativity about AI.