4 ms·

"Changing times"? What exactly is he talking about? Many of the things he mentioned have been pretty standard, even among the least-knowledgeable web developers

"Changing times"? What exactly is he talking about? Many of the things he mentioned have been pretty standard, even among the least-knowledgeable web developers, for years now. jQuery has had pretty significant traction for 4 or so years now. Crockford's work is extremely well-know, as well, and has been for some time now. Minifying JavaScript and CSS files isn't new, nor are REST and HTML5. The times did change, but it looks like he's still just catching up with where the rest of us were years ago.

TazeTSchnitzel 14y ago
It's only changing times for those developers that used to get away with only knowing the bare minimum.
- bbotond 14y ago
  Which is most developers. Maybe you work with exceptionally well-informed and talented people but 90% of the web devs I know don't know squat about responsive and MVC frameworks, REST or how to optimize JS. And by "don't know" I mean they have never even heard of the concept, not just that they haven't had the time to learn about it. Sometimes I get funny looks for mentioning even jQuery or modernizr.
  - TazeTSchnitzel 14y ago
    >Maybe you work with exceptionally well-informed and talented people I don't. I'm not one myself, either. I have no familiarity with MVC frameworks, but I at least know what they are.
    - bbotond 14y ago
      Maybe our experience is different because of where we live. I'm Hungarian and most people here speak poor English (due to various reasons - the education system is not exactly stellar and also Hungarian is very, very different from any other European language except Finnish). So few programmers I know read blogs or news sites about programming.
      - TazeTSchnitzel 14y ago
        Ah. I'm lucky to live in the UK, which natively speaks English.
  - deleted 14y ago
    [deleted]
jasonlotito 14y ago
> jQuery has had pretty significant traction for 4 or so years now. One could probably assume you already know it. Right? =) > Minifying JavaScript and CSS files isn't new, nor are REST and HTML5. Being new and being widely practiced are two different things. Also, REST is something people still struggle with today, because they assumed they knew it because it's deceptively easy. And HTML5? Really? It takes just 10 seconds to scroll through the thread here and see how just because HTML5 is more than 6 months old doesn't mean everyone sees it as ready. > but it looks like he's still just catching up with where the rest of us were years ago The rest of who specifically? Not HN'ers, that's for sure. Not web developers. Who, specifically?
- jfaucett 14y ago
  agree wholeheartedly about HTML5. Its a broad API with lots of loose parts, and frankly its not ready in the sense that I can take the specs, program an app in HTML5 and be confident that its gonna work. I'm pretty confident in saying no browser supports HTML5 100% - though I'd be happy if someone could prove me wrong :)
  - rimantas 14y ago
    And it won't be ready, ever. It is like building the skyscraper on the swamp without proper foundation, or trying to convert your truck to a race car. HTML was born and evolved around hyperlinked content. Using it for apps was an afterthought and it shows and there is no escape from that. You cannot start from scratch and you cannot keep pilling on without breaking the thing. That's why I don't subscribe to the optimism of those claiming that HTML will soon win everything. Really, just try to implement anything moderately complex in web technologies, and then the same thing using any of the native sdk's and compare the level of pain.
- PommeDeTerre 14y ago
  I'm going based on the hundreds of web developers I've interviewed over the past few years. These include people with no formal training, through to people with a decade or more of experience. While I don't specifically ask for experience with jQuery in job postings, there have only been a small handful of those candidates who have never used it. But even they have often just focused on using YUI, MooTools, Dojo, or some other similar framework instead. The "changing times" the article author talks about happened years ago when it comes to these frameworks. The same goes for HTML5, minifying, REST, and basically everything else he listed. These concepts are common knowledge these days, and basically everyone in the field that I've deal with has been aware of them, and in most cases has actively used them. I really don't know what to say to you, if you actually are a web developer and you found many of those concepts to be new. A lot of what the article author lists are pretty well-established and widely-used. "Changing times" doesn't really apply at all well after the change has happened.
dreamdu5t 14y ago
Yeah, seriously. Anybody who's worked a "real" web design job in the last 2 years has had to use these technologies and practices.

TazeTSchnitzel 14y ago

It's only changing times for those developers that used to get away with only knowing the bare minimum.

bbotond 14y ago
Which is most developers. Maybe you work with exceptionally well-informed and talented people but 90% of the web devs I know don't know squat about responsive and MVC frameworks, REST or how to optimize JS. And by "don't know" I mean they have never even heard of the concept, not just that they haven't had the time to learn about it. Sometimes I get funny looks for mentioning even jQuery or modernizr.
- TazeTSchnitzel 14y ago
  >Maybe you work with exceptionally well-informed and talented people I don't. I'm not one myself, either. I have no familiarity with MVC frameworks, but I at least know what they are.
  - bbotond 14y ago
    Maybe our experience is different because of where we live. I'm Hungarian and most people here speak poor English (due to various reasons - the education system is not exactly stellar and also Hungarian is very, very different from any other European language except Finnish). So few programmers I know read blogs or news sites about programming.
    - TazeTSchnitzel 14y ago
      Ah. I'm lucky to live in the UK, which natively speaks English.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]

jasonlotito 14y ago

> jQuery has had pretty significant traction for 4 or so years now. One could probably assume you already know it. Right? =) > Minifying JavaScript and CSS files isn't new, nor are REST and HTML5. Being new and being widely practiced are two different things. Also, REST is something people still struggle with today, because they assumed they knew it because it's deceptively easy. And HTML5? Really? It takes just 10 seconds to scroll through the thread here and see how just because HTML5 is more than 6 months old doesn't mean everyone sees it as ready. > but it looks like he's still just catching up with where the rest of us were years ago The rest of who specifically? Not HN'ers, that's for sure. Not web developers. Who, specifically?

jfaucett 14y ago
agree wholeheartedly about HTML5. Its a broad API with lots of loose parts, and frankly its not ready in the sense that I can take the specs, program an app in HTML5 and be confident that its gonna work. I'm pretty confident in saying no browser supports HTML5 100% - though I'd be happy if someone could prove me wrong :)
- rimantas 14y ago
  And it won't be ready, ever. It is like building the skyscraper on the swamp without proper foundation, or trying to convert your truck to a race car. HTML was born and evolved around hyperlinked content. Using it for apps was an afterthought and it shows and there is no escape from that. You cannot start from scratch and you cannot keep pilling on without breaking the thing. That's why I don't subscribe to the optimism of those claiming that HTML will soon win everything. Really, just try to implement anything moderately complex in web technologies, and then the same thing using any of the native sdk's and compare the level of pain.
PommeDeTerre 14y ago
I'm going based on the hundreds of web developers I've interviewed over the past few years. These include people with no formal training, through to people with a decade or more of experience. While I don't specifically ask for experience with jQuery in job postings, there have only been a small handful of those candidates who have never used it. But even they have often just focused on using YUI, MooTools, Dojo, or some other similar framework instead. The "changing times" the article author talks about happened years ago when it comes to these frameworks. The same goes for HTML5, minifying, REST, and basically everything else he listed. These concepts are common knowledge these days, and basically everyone in the field that I've deal with has been aware of them, and in most cases has actively used them. I really don't know what to say to you, if you actually are a web developer and you found many of those concepts to be new. A lot of what the article author lists are pretty well-established and widely-used. "Changing times" doesn't really apply at all well after the change has happened.

dreamdu5t 14y ago

Yeah, seriously. Anybody who's worked a "real" web design job in the last 2 years has had to use these technologies and practices.