4 ms·

Who does the farming? Who does the cleaning? Who builds the buildings? Who are the line cooks? That should be obvious. But it should be just as obvious that th

Who does the farming? Who does the cleaning? Who builds the buildings? Who are the line cooks? That should be obvious. But it should be just as obvious that there are plenty of immigrants who are also necessary because they bring new ideas, their education, their incredible work ethic, to fill in the gaps that the US clearly has. There is one thing that unites all of us (and I do mean us, as I am one of them). We all dream of a society where our hard work can become prosperity for ourselves and for everyone else, a plot of fertile soil that is worth sowing. We all come here with a dream. And I personally don't mind so much that I'm uplifting people that don't agree with my existence. I just wish that they could stay out of our way so we could all benefit.

dangus 5mo ago
You don’t even have to think that hard about it. Without immigration an imminent depopulation crisis is on its way to America. We are actually blessed to be in demand as an immigration destination as well as a culture and infrastructure uniquely set up for it. Squandering that advantage to satisfy xenophobic ideology is yet another demonstration of the Republican Party’s lack of fiscal responsibility. See also: completely random war in Iran, ICE budget increases spent on kicking out taxpayers/customers, tax cuts for billionaires, the current record high budget deficit, $1.8 billion fund for Trump brownshirts, etc.
- iugtmkbdfil834 5mo ago
  << Without immigration an imminent depopulation crisis is on its way to America. You may not realize this, but it appears to be the goal in this case.
- thrownthatway 5mo ago
  > Without immigration an imminent depopulation crisis is on its way to America. Most countries have this same issue. Not all, but the global population rise, if current trends continue will reverse. Can you explain to me your understanding of why that is? And can you also explain your understanding of why Israel is the only Western country that has a fertility rate above replacement?
  - dangus 5mo ago
    To be honest, the depopulation crisis is not something we are likely to be able to stop in the long term. But curtailing immigration certainly won't help, and the US would be uniquely positioned as an immigration destination to weather the storm of rapid depopulation better than other countries if it continued its status as an immigration center. Recommended reading: After the Spike: Population, Progress, and the Case for People Or really any other book on the subject, I'm not married to that one, it's not a perfect book it's just one that's easy to find because of the distinctive cover. I don't care to get into talking about Israel. It's a country with the population of Ohio, so if it's an anomaly, it's an anomaly. The only discussion I can get into that country is going to get distasteful.
jmspring 5mo ago
I think there are many jobs Americans have decided the just don’t want to do - at a large scale. That said many do. There is a completely different dynamic with job shops like wipro and others sponsoring “high skilled visas” which are only used to undercut certain labor markets.
- striking 5mo ago
  I'm not against tightening up the constraints to prevent what becomes indentured servitude dressed up in red, white, and blue. That doesn't help the American people or those who carry within them the American dream. But fixing that is not everyone's actual intent, and that does really bother me.
  - jmspring 5mo ago
    And your point? The US has an issue where at a certain price point labor has no interest. Reality is that is multiplied if it actually requires real work in a field, rudimentary construction, etc. This is not a visa issue, but one we solve with illegal labor and visas. The real solution is visas and making those that done want to work and sponge off social services, actually work. My kiddo graduates soon, her baby daddy owes $75k in back child support - say 7 years. He’s talented enough to make $150+ wood working. Refuses to do anything because the man/etc. Branch not far from tree. I’d love to turn a POS like him in such that someone equally talented and wants to contribute can, take a percentage. The person gets a visa, the dead beat gets servitude. No take on the servitude just taxes maybe going off to pay the debt. The US is a land of opportunity, but also a land of a bunch of idiots that are entitled.
    - striking 5mo ago
      I don't know anything about that situation, but it sounds difficult and I'm sorry that it's happening to your loved ones. I'm not sure you can make someone work if they don't care to, though. Like, take the common example of debtors having their driver's licenses suspended for their debt. Is that really helping anyone? They certainly won't be any closer to paying it off. I can't disagree with your final assertion there, but there's really very little you can do besides offer greater incentives that get people to genuinely want to work. And I know there's not a market for that and that the rich are keeping the purse strings tight. So it goes.
thrownthatway 5mo ago
> Who does the farming? Who does the cleaning? Who builds the buildings? Who are the line cooks? That should be obvious. Exclusively immigrants? Is that what you’re arguing? Only green card holders in the US do those jobs?
- striking 5mo ago
  I'm hoping you just misread my comment... Otherwise I've got a little more confidence about education in the US being a gap that needs filling :)
philipallstar 5mo ago
> Who does the farming? Who does the cleaning? Who builds the buildings? Who are the line cooks? That should be obvious. I don't think "but who will pick the cotton?" is a good argument.

dangus 5mo ago

You don’t even have to think that hard about it. Without immigration an imminent depopulation crisis is on its way to America. We are actually blessed to be in demand as an immigration destination as well as a culture and infrastructure uniquely set up for it. Squandering that advantage to satisfy xenophobic ideology is yet another demonstration of the Republican Party’s lack of fiscal responsibility. See also: completely random war in Iran, ICE budget increases spent on kicking out taxpayers/customers, tax cuts for billionaires, the current record high budget deficit, $1.8 billion fund for Trump brownshirts, etc.

iugtmkbdfil834 5mo ago
<< Without immigration an imminent depopulation crisis is on its way to America. You may not realize this, but it appears to be the goal in this case.
thrownthatway 5mo ago
> Without immigration an imminent depopulation crisis is on its way to America. Most countries have this same issue. Not all, but the global population rise, if current trends continue will reverse. Can you explain to me your understanding of why that is? And can you also explain your understanding of why Israel is the only Western country that has a fertility rate above replacement?
- dangus 5mo ago
  To be honest, the depopulation crisis is not something we are likely to be able to stop in the long term. But curtailing immigration certainly won't help, and the US would be uniquely positioned as an immigration destination to weather the storm of rapid depopulation better than other countries if it continued its status as an immigration center. Recommended reading: After the Spike: Population, Progress, and the Case for People Or really any other book on the subject, I'm not married to that one, it's not a perfect book it's just one that's easy to find because of the distinctive cover. I don't care to get into talking about Israel. It's a country with the population of Ohio, so if it's an anomaly, it's an anomaly. The only discussion I can get into that country is going to get distasteful.

jmspring 5mo ago

I think there are many jobs Americans have decided the just don’t want to do - at a large scale. That said many do. There is a completely different dynamic with job shops like wipro and others sponsoring “high skilled visas” which are only used to undercut certain labor markets.

striking 5mo ago
I'm not against tightening up the constraints to prevent what becomes indentured servitude dressed up in red, white, and blue. That doesn't help the American people or those who carry within them the American dream. But fixing that is not everyone's actual intent, and that does really bother me.
- jmspring 5mo ago
  And your point? The US has an issue where at a certain price point labor has no interest. Reality is that is multiplied if it actually requires real work in a field, rudimentary construction, etc. This is not a visa issue, but one we solve with illegal labor and visas. The real solution is visas and making those that done want to work and sponge off social services, actually work. My kiddo graduates soon, her baby daddy owes $75k in back child support - say 7 years. He’s talented enough to make $150+ wood working. Refuses to do anything because the man/etc. Branch not far from tree. I’d love to turn a POS like him in such that someone equally talented and wants to contribute can, take a percentage. The person gets a visa, the dead beat gets servitude. No take on the servitude just taxes maybe going off to pay the debt. The US is a land of opportunity, but also a land of a bunch of idiots that are entitled.
  - striking 5mo ago
    I don't know anything about that situation, but it sounds difficult and I'm sorry that it's happening to your loved ones. I'm not sure you can make someone work if they don't care to, though. Like, take the common example of debtors having their driver's licenses suspended for their debt. Is that really helping anyone? They certainly won't be any closer to paying it off. I can't disagree with your final assertion there, but there's really very little you can do besides offer greater incentives that get people to genuinely want to work. And I know there's not a market for that and that the rich are keeping the purse strings tight. So it goes.

thrownthatway 5mo ago

> Who does the farming? Who does the cleaning? Who builds the buildings? Who are the line cooks? That should be obvious. Exclusively immigrants? Is that what you’re arguing? Only green card holders in the US do those jobs?

striking 5mo ago
I'm hoping you just misread my comment... Otherwise I've got a little more confidence about education in the US being a gap that needs filling :)

philipallstar 5mo ago

> Who does the farming? Who does the cleaning? Who builds the buildings? Who are the line cooks? That should be obvious. I don't think "but who will pick the cotton?" is a good argument.