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> The Chinese are a decade ahead of the west when it comes to building cars. Is this true? From years of watching Top Gear any Chinese car that was tested was

by pjot 4mo ago

> The Chinese are a decade ahead of the west when it comes to building cars. Is this true? From years of watching Top Gear any Chinese car that was tested was laughably bad.

m-s-y 4mo ago
For EVs, yes, absolutely
- somenameforme 4mo ago
  Yip, outside the US BYD cars are absolutely everywhere, pretty awesome cars, and crazy cheap - like < $15k. Apparently < $10k within China itself.
  - ShinyLeftPad 4mo ago
    The price is not the important part, it basically doesn't matter. On top of subsidies and government policy aiming to undermine manufacturing in EU and elsewhere, domestic consumption in PRC is laughably low and government policies act to transfer wealth from households to manufacturing. Locals won't buy the supply, PRC literally has to get these cars somewhere or trash them. Now if those cars are actually good, price independent, then that would be worth mentioning.
    - dirtbagskier 4mo ago
      [dead]
    - iamthemonster 4mo ago
      Do you have any references for your statements? The majority of car sales in China are EVs (which is more than the UK, the EU and the US) so locals are buying the supply right now. Reference: https://ourworldindata.org/electric-car-sales https://ourworldindata.org/electric-car-sales
      - ShinyLeftPad 4mo ago
        Sure. China domestic consumption is laughably low: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_household_final_consumption_expenditure_per_capita https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_household... (lower than Kosovo, Sri Lanka, lower than world average) https://bst-europe.eu/economy-security-trade/more-and-more-why-chinese-overcapacities-are-a-significant-challenge-for-the-eu/ https://bst-europe.eu/economy-security-trade/more-and-more-w... Locals won't buy EV supply: https://asia.nikkei.com/business/automobiles/china-s-domestic-car-demand-stays-weak-but-exports-strengthen https://asia.nikkei.com/business/automobiles/china-s-domesti... https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2023-china-ev-graveyards/ https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2023-china-ev-graveyards/
        somenameforme 4mo ago
        The articles you provided were relatively light on relevant facts, but did cite two important values - 60% of all vehicles purchased in China are now EVs, and domestic sales of such are about 1.4 million per month. The data they conspicuously left out is, well how many EVs are sold elsewhere per month? In the US, ostensibly the largest consumer market in the world, the figure is 0.082 million per month. [1] Even if we scale US sales to adjust for population differences, the Chinese are picking up electric vehicles at a dramatically higher rate - and the single highest in the world. And this is almost certainly due to companies like BYD and others providing quality electric vehicles at prices below even cheap ICE vehicles. [1] - https://www.anl.gov/esia/light-duty-electric-drive-vehicles-monthly-sales-updates https://www.anl.gov/esia/light-duty-electric-drive-vehicles-...
        ShinyLeftPad 4mo ago
        How is it relevant how many EVs are sold in the US? The country obviously prefers internal combustion engines. I am saying that PRC is a command economy, EV production is strongly subsidized, no labor protection, falling domestic sales and crazy low domestic consumption in general, a lot of excess of EVs to the extent that they are trashed instead of resold, and so comparing EVs by price to European EVs is silly. Nothing you say contradicts me. Yes Chinese buy lots of EV so what? And if you mistake this for choice or how great Chinese EVs are, I have news for you. https://www.kaggle.com/datasets/bogof666/shanghai-car-license-plate-auction-price https://www.kaggle.com/datasets/bogof666/shanghai-car-licens... https://www.cpopartners.com/chinas-green-push-shanghai-2025-vehicle-replacement-and-new-energy/ https://www.cpopartners.com/chinas-green-push-shanghai-2025-...
CamperBob2 4mo ago
Maybe I'm dating myself, but I remember when the same was said of Japanese cars. First we laughed at them, then we fought them, then they won, then we solved the problem with protectionist tariffs.

by pjot 4mo ago

> The Chinese are a decade ahead of the west when it comes to building cars. Is this true? From years of watching Top Gear any Chinese car that was tested was laughably bad.

m-s-y 4mo ago

For EVs, yes, absolutely

somenameforme 4mo ago
Yip, outside the US BYD cars are absolutely everywhere, pretty awesome cars, and crazy cheap - like < $15k. Apparently < $10k within China itself.
- ShinyLeftPad 4mo ago
  The price is not the important part, it basically doesn't matter. On top of subsidies and government policy aiming to undermine manufacturing in EU and elsewhere, domestic consumption in PRC is laughably low and government policies act to transfer wealth from households to manufacturing. Locals won't buy the supply, PRC literally has to get these cars somewhere or trash them. Now if those cars are actually good, price independent, then that would be worth mentioning.
  - dirtbagskier 4mo ago
    [dead]
  - iamthemonster 4mo ago
    Do you have any references for your statements? The majority of car sales in China are EVs (which is more than the UK, the EU and the US) so locals are buying the supply right now. Reference: https://ourworldindata.org/electric-car-sales https://ourworldindata.org/electric-car-sales
    - ShinyLeftPad 4mo ago
      Sure. China domestic consumption is laughably low: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_household_final_consumption_expenditure_per_capita https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_household... (lower than Kosovo, Sri Lanka, lower than world average) https://bst-europe.eu/economy-security-trade/more-and-more-why-chinese-overcapacities-are-a-significant-challenge-for-the-eu/ https://bst-europe.eu/economy-security-trade/more-and-more-w... Locals won't buy EV supply: https://asia.nikkei.com/business/automobiles/china-s-domestic-car-demand-stays-weak-but-exports-strengthen https://asia.nikkei.com/business/automobiles/china-s-domesti... https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2023-china-ev-graveyards/ https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2023-china-ev-graveyards/
      - somenameforme 4mo ago
        The articles you provided were relatively light on relevant facts, but did cite two important values - 60% of all vehicles purchased in China are now EVs, and domestic sales of such are about 1.4 million per month. The data they conspicuously left out is, well how many EVs are sold elsewhere per month? In the US, ostensibly the largest consumer market in the world, the figure is 0.082 million per month. [1] Even if we scale US sales to adjust for population differences, the Chinese are picking up electric vehicles at a dramatically higher rate - and the single highest in the world. And this is almost certainly due to companies like BYD and others providing quality electric vehicles at prices below even cheap ICE vehicles. [1] - https://www.anl.gov/esia/light-duty-electric-drive-vehicles-monthly-sales-updates https://www.anl.gov/esia/light-duty-electric-drive-vehicles-...
        ShinyLeftPad 4mo ago
        How is it relevant how many EVs are sold in the US? The country obviously prefers internal combustion engines. I am saying that PRC is a command economy, EV production is strongly subsidized, no labor protection, falling domestic sales and crazy low domestic consumption in general, a lot of excess of EVs to the extent that they are trashed instead of resold, and so comparing EVs by price to European EVs is silly. Nothing you say contradicts me. Yes Chinese buy lots of EV so what? And if you mistake this for choice or how great Chinese EVs are, I have news for you. https://www.kaggle.com/datasets/bogof666/shanghai-car-license-plate-auction-price https://www.kaggle.com/datasets/bogof666/shanghai-car-licens... https://www.cpopartners.com/chinas-green-push-shanghai-2025-vehicle-replacement-and-new-energy/ https://www.cpopartners.com/chinas-green-push-shanghai-2025-...

CamperBob2 4mo ago

Maybe I'm dating myself, but I remember when the same was said of Japanese cars. First we laughed at them, then we fought them, then they won, then we solved the problem with protectionist tariffs.