3 ms·

Sure, the government has that goal too. But the government has many tools, and using taxes for that is using the wrong tool. Or maybe you think that billionaire

Sure, the government has that goal too. But the government has many tools, and using taxes for that is using the wrong tool. Or maybe you think that billionaires owe us not only to pay taxes, but also to play nice, and pay those taxes with a smile on their face?

ethbr1 5mo ago
> pay those taxes with a smile on their face The government's monopoly on punitive violence isn't only intended for the peasantry...
breakyerself 5mo ago
Billionares shouldn't exist. We shouldn't just tax them for the revenue. We should tax them to limit the undemocratic power that comes with excessive wealth.
- mannanj 5mo ago
  Agreed. Humans evolved in a tribal, local community leadership system. To have as much wealth as millions of people that you never interact with should not exist as a person. It is against the system principles of humanity; either create a new species and turn the billionaires into them, or balance the system.
lovelearning 5mo ago
What are those other tools?
well_ackshually 5mo ago
>and pay those taxes with a smile on their face? Considering the alternative for them over the past millennia has been, inevitably that they get caught, hanged, quartered, beaten and other various violent methods: yes, they should smile, they're buying their lives with all that money :)
- Nasrudith 5mo ago
  You clearly don't understand psychology at all. Rule by fear has a major downside that Machivelli warned about. If you keep people under threat all the time, as soon as the threat fails and you can no longer point a gun at your head they preemptively kill you and feel good about it. Threatening violence to get what you want always ends with you being out-violenced by a bigger thug.
  - mannanj 5mo ago
    This is how alpha chimps function in their tribe. They resort to war and violence to prolong their rule, and it works for long enough, thats all they need for the cost-benefits to be worth it on their side. In humanity, being the alpha chimp, you can actually just run away from the tribe with all your wealth instead of outright die and form a new identity and start a life elsewhere and change your last name and go somewhere not well known, and if you and your family does this for enough generations you are forgotten. I think this might explain the rotten apples at the tip-top of our industrial/societal wealth classes. I think they are these people, played out over generations, having somehow survived the system that used to make it impossible to do this when at the chimp level (or even medieval maybe, maybe this new form of evasion only arose in the industrial age).
    - BugsJustFindMe 5mo ago
      https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/alpha-male-alpha-chimpanzee-primatologist-frans-de-waal-a8421291.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/alpha-male-a...
      - mannanj 5mo ago
        Okay sure. What other concept or label would you recommend I use to describe a leader in a tribe?
  - well_ackshually 5mo ago
    It's only by fear if they don't understand how to restrain themselves. Behave well with all your wealth, and nothing will happen: it's the same reason why wealthy patrons of art and craftsmen were at least respected, and why things ended poorly for robber barons. And no, I do not believe that Musk's flabby arms or Bezos' shiny head are a threat of bigger violence to me anyways.
mannanj 5mo ago
Funding the government, which has the goal to create a more just society, means taxes should support that. If you're not using your funding to support your goals, thats corruption.
- credit_guy 5mo ago
  This is wishful thinking. Billionaires can vote with their feet, or can pay expensive lawyers and accountants to find all the possible loopholes to not pay those taxes. California wants to tax Elon Musk for his trillion dollars. But how much of that trillion dollars was generated in California? He has a very valid claim that a lot of it was generated in Texas, and he'll go all the way to the Supreme Court with that. People can vote that a new tax should be levied on billionaires, but can't vote how those billionaires will react to the tax. Moving out of state is one option (see Larry Page, Sergey Brin, etc). Hiring armies of lawyers to challenge any wealth assessment is another. Litigating to the Supreme Court yet another. I'm not a billionaire and never will be, but if I can think of these few ideas, they can think of 100 times more.
  - mannanj 5mo ago
    It's wishful to ask the system designed for a goal, to do the goal?
    - credit_guy 5mo ago
      Exactly. You can ask many things, like you can ask for world peace, and you can ask for universal brotherly love. If the ask has no chance to result in the outcome you desire, it's purely wishful thinking. It feels to me you are asking "why can't we just eliminate billionaires". Well, they have a vote in that decision.

ethbr1 5mo ago

> pay those taxes with a smile on their face The government's monopoly on punitive violence isn't only intended for the peasantry...

breakyerself 5mo ago

Billionares shouldn't exist. We shouldn't just tax them for the revenue. We should tax them to limit the undemocratic power that comes with excessive wealth.

mannanj 5mo ago
Agreed. Humans evolved in a tribal, local community leadership system. To have as much wealth as millions of people that you never interact with should not exist as a person. It is against the system principles of humanity; either create a new species and turn the billionaires into them, or balance the system.

lovelearning 5mo ago

What are those other tools?

well_ackshually 5mo ago

>and pay those taxes with a smile on their face? Considering the alternative for them over the past millennia has been, inevitably that they get caught, hanged, quartered, beaten and other various violent methods: yes, they should smile, they're buying their lives with all that money :)

Nasrudith 5mo ago
You clearly don't understand psychology at all. Rule by fear has a major downside that Machivelli warned about. If you keep people under threat all the time, as soon as the threat fails and you can no longer point a gun at your head they preemptively kill you and feel good about it. Threatening violence to get what you want always ends with you being out-violenced by a bigger thug.
- mannanj 5mo ago
  This is how alpha chimps function in their tribe. They resort to war and violence to prolong their rule, and it works for long enough, thats all they need for the cost-benefits to be worth it on their side. In humanity, being the alpha chimp, you can actually just run away from the tribe with all your wealth instead of outright die and form a new identity and start a life elsewhere and change your last name and go somewhere not well known, and if you and your family does this for enough generations you are forgotten. I think this might explain the rotten apples at the tip-top of our industrial/societal wealth classes. I think they are these people, played out over generations, having somehow survived the system that used to make it impossible to do this when at the chimp level (or even medieval maybe, maybe this new form of evasion only arose in the industrial age).
  - BugsJustFindMe 5mo ago
    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/alpha-male-alpha-chimpanzee-primatologist-frans-de-waal-a8421291.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/alpha-male-a...
    - mannanj 5mo ago
      Okay sure. What other concept or label would you recommend I use to describe a leader in a tribe?
- well_ackshually 5mo ago
  It's only by fear if they don't understand how to restrain themselves. Behave well with all your wealth, and nothing will happen: it's the same reason why wealthy patrons of art and craftsmen were at least respected, and why things ended poorly for robber barons. And no, I do not believe that Musk's flabby arms or Bezos' shiny head are a threat of bigger violence to me anyways.

mannanj 5mo ago

Funding the government, which has the goal to create a more just society, means taxes should support that. If you're not using your funding to support your goals, thats corruption.

credit_guy 5mo ago
This is wishful thinking. Billionaires can vote with their feet, or can pay expensive lawyers and accountants to find all the possible loopholes to not pay those taxes. California wants to tax Elon Musk for his trillion dollars. But how much of that trillion dollars was generated in California? He has a very valid claim that a lot of it was generated in Texas, and he'll go all the way to the Supreme Court with that. People can vote that a new tax should be levied on billionaires, but can't vote how those billionaires will react to the tax. Moving out of state is one option (see Larry Page, Sergey Brin, etc). Hiring armies of lawyers to challenge any wealth assessment is another. Litigating to the Supreme Court yet another. I'm not a billionaire and never will be, but if I can think of these few ideas, they can think of 100 times more.
- mannanj 5mo ago
  It's wishful to ask the system designed for a goal, to do the goal?
  - credit_guy 5mo ago
    Exactly. You can ask many things, like you can ask for world peace, and you can ask for universal brotherly love. If the ask has no chance to result in the outcome you desire, it's purely wishful thinking. It feels to me you are asking "why can't we just eliminate billionaires". Well, they have a vote in that decision.