4 ms·

People should be more aware of the symptoms of sleep apneas - the lack of energy during the day, feeling tired, waking up throughout the night, waking up tired/

by gpt5 5mo ago

People should be more aware of the symptoms of sleep apneas - the lack of energy during the day, feeling tired, waking up throughout the night, waking up tired/exhausted, etc. People with untreated sleep apnea have multiple folds higher chances to be depressed, unemployed, and have trouble with basic life functions, in addition to the long term health consequences of depriving your brain from Oxygen. I've suggested 4 people over the last couple of years to get tested based on them casually mentioning some of these symptoms, and all 4 got diagnosed with moderate to severe sleep apnea (which is classified by the number of times you stopped breathing every hour - AHI, and the blood oxygen level). Getting tested is easy and cheap - you can find kits for under $100 which essentially are just a monitor you attach your finger + a few ECG stickers on your body which you use for a couple of nights. You can order them online without talking to a doctor, and you will get a prescription for CPAP if you are diagnosed as positive. Treatment with CPAP is highly effective in eliminating these symptoms, and also reversing the brain damage (although MRI scans shows that it takes around a year for the gray matter in your brain to restore itself). The other suggestion I'd make is that if you are overweight or obese, GLP-1 has proven to be also a miracle drug for sleep apnea. Unlike the study mentioned above, that essentially reduced the average AHI of participants by 4, which for almost everyone wouldn't cure them. Drugs like Zepbound have shown that over half are cured from sleep apnea after roughly a year of use. This is in addition to the other health benefits they provide with the weight reduction. Essentially. This unfortunately won't work for everyone, as weight is not the only cause of sleep apnea, but it is by far the most common one.

anyfoo 5mo ago
> People should be more aware of the symptoms of sleep apneas I'm always a bit puzzled that this needs to be pointed out? I don't have sleep apnea per se, at least not chronically, but I've definitely had bouts of it due to allergy, sickness, stuff like that. The symptoms are the same because the mechanism is the same: I didn't get enough oxygen in the night. It's always glaringly obvious to me the next day. I feel way more tired and exhausted than I normally would given the amount of sleep. I sometimes had instances of waking up gasping for air. I really don't need to be told in those instances that there was an issue during the night. My sleep didn't sleep, of course there's something wrong and needs to be looked at? Like, one time's a fluke, but if it happens a lot...
- rattlesnakedave 5mo ago
  It’s typically something that sets in over time (often, but not always with weight gain and age), most people don’t notice because it’s gradual. Especially if they aren’t in normal risk groups. OSA symptoms are easy for an individual (and clinicians) to misatribute
  - anyfoo 5mo ago
    Yeah, but I've met people who think it's "normal" to wake up tired and exhausted even after multiple (or even many) nights of sufficient sleep, time-wise. I remember one person who thought waking up tired is just part of being an adult? The original comment said "multiple folds higher chances to be depressed, unemployed", for me that's a bit like saying that being on fire has a very high chance to make you depressed and unemployed. Yeah, of course that's true, but the effect on performance and well-being after a sleep apnea night is so obvious to me, I don't have to look for the proximate cause... EDIT: Through the other answer came to me that maybe in other cases, it's not so directly obvious just after waking up.
    - tayo42 5mo ago
      Waking up tired could be caffeine addiction too, which I think most adults are addicted to
      - jurgenburgen 5mo ago
        I’m addicted to caffeine and don’t wake up tired. Maybe you have sleep apnea.
- devmor 5mo ago
  I think it’s important to know your personal context levels. You noticed it because it’s happened to you occasionally. What about people who’ve been experiencing it most of their lives? To them, they are just tired all the time and don’t know why. It could be any number of things. To someone who’s never experienced it, how could they understand? My wife has bad sleep apnea and has to use a CPAP - neither of us noticed or understood the issue until she did a sleep study to deal with her bad snoring. We knew she was tired all the time, but attributed it to factors like work stress or maybe diet. The average person’s understanding of sleep apnea is probably around the level of “it exists and they have to wear a device at night” and not much more.
patrickdavey 5mo ago
I've tried a CPAP machine for 6 weeks and felt no different and gave up. I think I was a 6 on the scale. I wish it had worked though! Currently I've just given up and embracing feeling relatively tired all the time. I've tried side sleeping devices (woody knows backpack) mandibular advancement splints etc. So hard to tell (I find anyway) to get to a definitive answer
- cortesoft 5mo ago
  For some people it takes months to feel any different. For some people, they don't feel any better but it improves their health. Did you examine your numbers at all in something like OSCAR? You could get a good idea of how many events you were having at night, and if the CPAP was improving it. Even if you aren't feeling any better (yet) it could still be helping. You could also have multiple things that are causing you fatigue issues, and maybe fixing only one of them wasn't enough... that doesn't mean that one wasn't also important, though.
- stingraycharles 5mo ago
  I didn’t have apnea but I had UARS, which works differently. It’s more difficult to diagnose, primarily because it’s more rare.
- galactus 5mo ago
  exactly the same for me (but I gave after 5 weeks, because I didnt felt any different and hated everything about sleeping with the cpap)
- petesergeant 5mo ago
  Three more things to try if you haven’t, on a “can’t hurt” basis: nightly Avamys spray (might need a scrip depending on where you are), magnesium glycinate before bed, little bits of plastic that go inside the nostril and hold them open.
  - toast0 5mo ago
    Also worth a try... B1 (thiamine) seems to help for me. I don't have objective numbers, but I disturb my spouse with my snoring and breathing troubles far less. I believe I have (undiagnosed) central sleep apnea rathee than OSA though, it's been a long time since I had a sleep study, but I had only one event over a few recorded nights... But some nights it's pretty bad.
calvinmorrison 5mo ago
#1 symptom - fat necks! if you are like me and had a 17" neck at 185 in high school and now boast a 18.5".... you have it!
- dnnddidiej 5mo ago
  Why is that?
  - thfuran 5mo ago
    Sleep apnea can indirectly cause weight gain, but obesity—particularly excess fat on the neck—is the main controllable risk factor for obstructive sleep apnea, so it’s primarily the other way around.
shermantanktop 5mo ago
Having been down this path, it’s evident to me that the US has built up a sizable medical equipment industry around CPAP machines and their supplies. The sleep doctors who prescribe them don’t have many alternatives, so it’s the normal treatment they hand out. So it’s not a surprise that a casual mention of sleep quality ended with a CPAP machine rented by the month. It’s kind of what happened to me.
- Shadowmist 5mo ago
  Better to outright buy the machine online, then open it up and disable the modem.
  - antisthenes 5mo ago
    Why in the world does a CPAP machine need a modem?
    - f17428d27584 5mo ago
      Most have a cf slot to store the sleep data, it’s how the doctor / clinician can see if it’s working, make adjustments to pressure etc. but for convenience they can just upload the data directly. They also do OTA updates. However they also can perform an enforcement function: compliance. Insurers will penalize users of the device for not using it enough. This isn’t something I know much about just have seen it discussed, I don’t think all jurisdictions allow insurers to access this data for enforcement but it does seem to happen in USA. I think what happens is the insurers agree to pay for the device in installments. But they will cancel those payments if the person isn’t using it. But disabling the modem won’t fix that problem, you’d still get caught by the cf recorded data, or failing to provide it.
    - kotaKat 5mo ago
      Many patients starting out CPAP therapy go noncompliant because they have various issues or concerns with the machine, mask comfort, etc. Insurance companies are tired of paying thousands of dollars in machines and supplies that don't go used, so they instead 'rent' the machines from medical equipment suppliers, and use the machine's usage data to determine that you are still using it (and thus continue to pay for treatment). Typically after a year or so of usage they get 'paid for' but there's still ongoing compliance monitoring to get insurance to pay for supplies. The sleep lab and sleep doctors can also remotely review the usage and make adjustments as needed. One example is using the humidity sensors in ResMed units to adjust the humidification settings remotely. I was with a doctor that showed usage logs together and noted the bedroom was severely dry and thus we needed to adjust the humidifier to run hotter to compensate.
syntaxing 5mo ago
Any brand of test kit you recommend?
Aurornis 5mo ago
This is worth pursuing for anyone with the symptoms. However please do it with a reputable doctor, preferably associated with an established institution. Watch out for some of the specialty clinics and independent practice doctors who treat apnea like a cash cow. Sleep study scoring is theoretically set by strict rules, but in practice there can be differences between operators and clinics. Some clinics use this to their advantage to push more treatments and equipment and they’ll do it in ways that are most profitable for themselves. If they can’t get you scored high enough on the first sleep study they’ll pressure you to keep coming back for more studies or in some cases to start paying out of pocket after your insurance company starts refusing so many repeat studies with negative results. The better clinics are not afraid to tell someone they don’t have apnea or that they likely won’t benefit from PAP machine. They also aren’t shy about telling someone that weight management can be the best long term solution for weight-related cases, whereas some clinics won’t mention it because they want you coming back to them for never ending management.
- JSR_FDED 5mo ago
  A friend went to one of those clinics. “The diagnosis is sleep apnea. What are your symptoms?”
- aaron695 5mo ago
  [dead]
- nemo44x 5mo ago
  Get 2 opinions. And yes about weight - some people won’t have Apnea if they get their BMI to like 25 or whatever. Saying that I have a CPAP machine and love it.
  - gushogg-blake 5mo ago
    Multiple opinions won't necessarily help unless you research first. I'm not sure about other disciplines but in orthodontics for example there is a very definite split between whether they are "airway focused" or mainstream. I saw 6 or 7 different doctors, dentists and orthos in the UK over a period of about 10 years and none of them saw anything wrong with my jaws. Saw an airway focused ortho and a surgeon specialising in maxillo-mandibular advancement surgery and they recommended aggressive surgery. I agree with them, mainstream medicine is ignoring an epidemic of jaw underdevelopment because it challenges current practices in orthodontics.
petesergeant 5mo ago
> Treatment with CPAP is highly effective in eliminating these symptoms … for those who tolerate it. Numbers are all over the place, but roughly people who start it are only 50% likely to still be using it properly after a year.
- nemo44x 5mo ago
  I don’t know but I wonder if people that have insomnia or similar difficulty falling asleep (anxiety, etc) struggle with a CPAP. I am fortunate to fall asleep very easily, usually within 3-5 minutes or even faster. And I use a CPAP (nose saddles not a full mask), and prefer it to not using one while sleeping. The way it just opens all passageways is relaxing and I think helps fall asleep even more quickly.
- jrm4 5mo ago
  That seems -- quite high actually?
thibaut_barrere 5mo ago
Would you had precise kits references to share? It is quite hard to figure out what has cheap electronic versus what works. Thanks!
gniv 5mo ago
I bought a connected oxymeter (viatom). I wore it overnight on my finger with the phone nearby. The graph on the app shows exact values through the night so you can see how many time oxygen drops and for how long. It's not quite as good as the real thing but should give you an idea, and it's cheap.
radial_symmetry 5mo ago
100% agree. I can cleanly divide my life into before and after treatment for sleep apnea, I didn't realize I wasn't supposed to feel awful and tired all the time.
xivzgrev 5mo ago
Yes the lead is buried in the article. The drug reduces AHI by 4. It could only cure very mild sleep apnea. Otherwise it seems most useful as an additional treatment with CPAP. It could also help raise awareness of sleep apnea - try the drug first. Don't see any changes? Ok now try CPAP.

by gpt5 5mo ago

anyfoo 5mo ago

> People should be more aware of the symptoms of sleep apneas I'm always a bit puzzled that this needs to be pointed out? I don't have sleep apnea per se, at least not chronically, but I've definitely had bouts of it due to allergy, sickness, stuff like that. The symptoms are the same because the mechanism is the same: I didn't get enough oxygen in the night. It's always glaringly obvious to me the next day. I feel way more tired and exhausted than I normally would given the amount of sleep. I sometimes had instances of waking up gasping for air. I really don't need to be told in those instances that there was an issue during the night. My sleep didn't sleep, of course there's something wrong and needs to be looked at? Like, one time's a fluke, but if it happens a lot...

rattlesnakedave 5mo ago
It’s typically something that sets in over time (often, but not always with weight gain and age), most people don’t notice because it’s gradual. Especially if they aren’t in normal risk groups. OSA symptoms are easy for an individual (and clinicians) to misatribute
- anyfoo 5mo ago
  Yeah, but I've met people who think it's "normal" to wake up tired and exhausted even after multiple (or even many) nights of sufficient sleep, time-wise. I remember one person who thought waking up tired is just part of being an adult? The original comment said "multiple folds higher chances to be depressed, unemployed", for me that's a bit like saying that being on fire has a very high chance to make you depressed and unemployed. Yeah, of course that's true, but the effect on performance and well-being after a sleep apnea night is so obvious to me, I don't have to look for the proximate cause... EDIT: Through the other answer came to me that maybe in other cases, it's not so directly obvious just after waking up.
  - tayo42 5mo ago
    Waking up tired could be caffeine addiction too, which I think most adults are addicted to
    - jurgenburgen 5mo ago
      I’m addicted to caffeine and don’t wake up tired. Maybe you have sleep apnea.
devmor 5mo ago
I think it’s important to know your personal context levels. You noticed it because it’s happened to you occasionally. What about people who’ve been experiencing it most of their lives? To them, they are just tired all the time and don’t know why. It could be any number of things. To someone who’s never experienced it, how could they understand? My wife has bad sleep apnea and has to use a CPAP - neither of us noticed or understood the issue until she did a sleep study to deal with her bad snoring. We knew she was tired all the time, but attributed it to factors like work stress or maybe diet. The average person’s understanding of sleep apnea is probably around the level of “it exists and they have to wear a device at night” and not much more.

patrickdavey 5mo ago

I've tried a CPAP machine for 6 weeks and felt no different and gave up. I think I was a 6 on the scale. I wish it had worked though! Currently I've just given up and embracing feeling relatively tired all the time. I've tried side sleeping devices (woody knows backpack) mandibular advancement splints etc. So hard to tell (I find anyway) to get to a definitive answer

cortesoft 5mo ago
For some people it takes months to feel any different. For some people, they don't feel any better but it improves their health. Did you examine your numbers at all in something like OSCAR? You could get a good idea of how many events you were having at night, and if the CPAP was improving it. Even if you aren't feeling any better (yet) it could still be helping. You could also have multiple things that are causing you fatigue issues, and maybe fixing only one of them wasn't enough... that doesn't mean that one wasn't also important, though.
stingraycharles 5mo ago
I didn’t have apnea but I had UARS, which works differently. It’s more difficult to diagnose, primarily because it’s more rare.
galactus 5mo ago
exactly the same for me (but I gave after 5 weeks, because I didnt felt any different and hated everything about sleeping with the cpap)
petesergeant 5mo ago
Three more things to try if you haven’t, on a “can’t hurt” basis: nightly Avamys spray (might need a scrip depending on where you are), magnesium glycinate before bed, little bits of plastic that go inside the nostril and hold them open.
- toast0 5mo ago
  Also worth a try... B1 (thiamine) seems to help for me. I don't have objective numbers, but I disturb my spouse with my snoring and breathing troubles far less. I believe I have (undiagnosed) central sleep apnea rathee than OSA though, it's been a long time since I had a sleep study, but I had only one event over a few recorded nights... But some nights it's pretty bad.

calvinmorrison 5mo ago

#1 symptom - fat necks! if you are like me and had a 17" neck at 185 in high school and now boast a 18.5".... you have it!

dnnddidiej 5mo ago
Why is that?
- thfuran 5mo ago
  Sleep apnea can indirectly cause weight gain, but obesity—particularly excess fat on the neck—is the main controllable risk factor for obstructive sleep apnea, so it’s primarily the other way around.

shermantanktop 5mo ago

Having been down this path, it’s evident to me that the US has built up a sizable medical equipment industry around CPAP machines and their supplies. The sleep doctors who prescribe them don’t have many alternatives, so it’s the normal treatment they hand out. So it’s not a surprise that a casual mention of sleep quality ended with a CPAP machine rented by the month. It’s kind of what happened to me.

Shadowmist 5mo ago
Better to outright buy the machine online, then open it up and disable the modem.
- antisthenes 5mo ago
  Why in the world does a CPAP machine need a modem?
  - f17428d27584 5mo ago
    Most have a cf slot to store the sleep data, it’s how the doctor / clinician can see if it’s working, make adjustments to pressure etc. but for convenience they can just upload the data directly. They also do OTA updates. However they also can perform an enforcement function: compliance. Insurers will penalize users of the device for not using it enough. This isn’t something I know much about just have seen it discussed, I don’t think all jurisdictions allow insurers to access this data for enforcement but it does seem to happen in USA. I think what happens is the insurers agree to pay for the device in installments. But they will cancel those payments if the person isn’t using it. But disabling the modem won’t fix that problem, you’d still get caught by the cf recorded data, or failing to provide it.
  - kotaKat 5mo ago
    Many patients starting out CPAP therapy go noncompliant because they have various issues or concerns with the machine, mask comfort, etc. Insurance companies are tired of paying thousands of dollars in machines and supplies that don't go used, so they instead 'rent' the machines from medical equipment suppliers, and use the machine's usage data to determine that you are still using it (and thus continue to pay for treatment). Typically after a year or so of usage they get 'paid for' but there's still ongoing compliance monitoring to get insurance to pay for supplies. The sleep lab and sleep doctors can also remotely review the usage and make adjustments as needed. One example is using the humidity sensors in ResMed units to adjust the humidification settings remotely. I was with a doctor that showed usage logs together and noted the bedroom was severely dry and thus we needed to adjust the humidifier to run hotter to compensate.

syntaxing 5mo ago

Any brand of test kit you recommend?

Aurornis 5mo ago

This is worth pursuing for anyone with the symptoms. However please do it with a reputable doctor, preferably associated with an established institution. Watch out for some of the specialty clinics and independent practice doctors who treat apnea like a cash cow. Sleep study scoring is theoretically set by strict rules, but in practice there can be differences between operators and clinics. Some clinics use this to their advantage to push more treatments and equipment and they’ll do it in ways that are most profitable for themselves. If they can’t get you scored high enough on the first sleep study they’ll pressure you to keep coming back for more studies or in some cases to start paying out of pocket after your insurance company starts refusing so many repeat studies with negative results. The better clinics are not afraid to tell someone they don’t have apnea or that they likely won’t benefit from PAP machine. They also aren’t shy about telling someone that weight management can be the best long term solution for weight-related cases, whereas some clinics won’t mention it because they want you coming back to them for never ending management.

JSR_FDED 5mo ago
A friend went to one of those clinics. “The diagnosis is sleep apnea. What are your symptoms?”
aaron695 5mo ago
[dead]
nemo44x 5mo ago
Get 2 opinions. And yes about weight - some people won’t have Apnea if they get their BMI to like 25 or whatever. Saying that I have a CPAP machine and love it.
- gushogg-blake 5mo ago
  Multiple opinions won't necessarily help unless you research first. I'm not sure about other disciplines but in orthodontics for example there is a very definite split between whether they are "airway focused" or mainstream. I saw 6 or 7 different doctors, dentists and orthos in the UK over a period of about 10 years and none of them saw anything wrong with my jaws. Saw an airway focused ortho and a surgeon specialising in maxillo-mandibular advancement surgery and they recommended aggressive surgery. I agree with them, mainstream medicine is ignoring an epidemic of jaw underdevelopment because it challenges current practices in orthodontics.

petesergeant 5mo ago

> Treatment with CPAP is highly effective in eliminating these symptoms … for those who tolerate it. Numbers are all over the place, but roughly people who start it are only 50% likely to still be using it properly after a year.

nemo44x 5mo ago
I don’t know but I wonder if people that have insomnia or similar difficulty falling asleep (anxiety, etc) struggle with a CPAP. I am fortunate to fall asleep very easily, usually within 3-5 minutes or even faster. And I use a CPAP (nose saddles not a full mask), and prefer it to not using one while sleeping. The way it just opens all passageways is relaxing and I think helps fall asleep even more quickly.
jrm4 5mo ago
That seems -- quite high actually?

thibaut_barrere 5mo ago

Would you had precise kits references to share? It is quite hard to figure out what has cheap electronic versus what works. Thanks!

gniv 5mo ago

I bought a connected oxymeter (viatom). I wore it overnight on my finger with the phone nearby. The graph on the app shows exact values through the night so you can see how many time oxygen drops and for how long. It's not quite as good as the real thing but should give you an idea, and it's cheap.

radial_symmetry 5mo ago

100% agree. I can cleanly divide my life into before and after treatment for sleep apnea, I didn't realize I wasn't supposed to feel awful and tired all the time.

xivzgrev 5mo ago

Yes the lead is buried in the article. The drug reduces AHI by 4. It could only cure very mild sleep apnea. Otherwise it seems most useful as an additional treatment with CPAP. It could also help raise awareness of sleep apnea - try the drug first. Don't see any changes? Ok now try CPAP.