5 ms·

> So much North American rhetoric is focused on hatred of the cyclist My impression is that only people in the bicycling social world believe that. It seems li

by mmooss 5mo ago

> So much North American rhetoric is focused on hatred of the cyclist My impression is that only people in the bicycling social world believe that. It seems like a victim mentality that they reinforce by repeating it to each other. It's always possible I just haven't seen it, but localities around the country are building bicycling infrastructure, which doesn't correspond to hatred. Where do you see it? I hardly ever hear someone expressing hatred of cyclists. People who ride obviously like it. The great majority don't care about it - it has little impact on their lives. In cities, on streets I see people honk at, yell at, and flip off cyclists just like they honk, flip off, and yell at other drivers. IME the cyclists generally 'drive' as well/poorly as the automobile drivers. I do notice that people in spandex racing outfits on road bikes tend to behave with attitude problems toward everyone - pedestrians, non-racing cyclists, cars, etc. They are aggressive and fly by people, often with little margin, at dangerous speeds without warning. It's as if they think they own the road. I was just talking to a bike mechanic I know who brought it up. If people don't like them, it's obvious why.

DangitBobby 5mo ago
You clearly haven't spent much time on YouTube, TikTok, Twitter, FaceBook, or really anywhere there is a huge community. Americans fucking HATE cyclists. > The great majority don't care about it My own dad will take any opportunity to actively bitch about perceived annoyances perpetrated by cyclists and opine about how useless bike lanes are expensive and not actually productive because people only use them for exercise. Why don't you try actually bringing up cyclists and bike lanes somewhere, especially in the south, and then you tell me what people think.
- mmooss 5mo ago
  > Americans fucking HATE cyclists. I haven't met those Americans, somehow. Maybe it's just more social media nonsense - people joining the mob fun and far overestimating the loud voices?
  - DangitBobby 5mo ago
    Did you ask them? Lots of things I don't like don't come up until it's relevant.
    - 8note 5mo ago
      i certainly dislike that roads everywhere are so wide so as to support two rows of parked cars and then also two lanes of car traffic. that could easily be another row of houses or a pretty big park, over and over and over again through the whole city. its an incredible amount of government money and city land tied up in black top that needs regular resurfacing, cleaning, plowing, etc
  - snayan 5mo ago
    This feels more like a the company you keep situation than social media nonsense. You happen to have a social circle that doesn't have any issues with cyclists, perhaps there are a number of them in your group. But there are almost assuredly social circles that feel otherwise, that revel at the opportunity to roll coal as they pass a group of cyclists, that joke about running them off the road. A quick google indicates there have been numerous studies on the subject that seem to support the idea that bicyclists are often reviled by some portion of the population, correlated with those who rely heavily on automobiles. And, I mean, just scrolling this thread seems to show plenty of anecdotes to support the idea. Seems pretty systemic given the breadth of the anecdata.
    - mmooss 5mo ago
      I could be wrong, but ... > just scrolling this thread seems to show plenty of anecdotes to support the idea. Seems pretty systemic given the breadth of the anecdata That reasoning is the epitome of social media self-deception.
      - snayan 5mo ago
        I mean sure, if you just ignore the rest of my comment and take that piece in isolation, then I suppose it could further support your claim.
- Fricken 5mo ago
  Drivers mostly hate on other drivers, but they make time to hate other road users as well.
impendia 5mo ago
Some drivers seem to resent the idea that they should have to share the road, or slow down for anyone. Even if cyclists do everything right, they're still slower than cars, and so will present at least a minor inconvenience for drivers. In Canada the fight has gotten nasty, with governments in Alberta and Ontario putting forward legislation that could remove existing bike lanes. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-ford-bike-lane-toronto-court-ruling-1.7597460 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-ford-bike-lan... https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/alberta-government-bike-lanes-legislation-9.7195867 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/alberta-government-b... Maybe "hatred" is too strong of a word, but if I were a cyclist in Toronto or Edmonton I'd feel rather victimized.
- mmooss 5mo ago
  While I think cycling is great - environmentally, for health, apparently for mental health - bikes and cars don't mix unless they are going approx. the same speed in 1-2 lanes. Driving a car, bicycles are hard to see - I wouldn't be surprised if visibility in cars is specified to be sufficient to see other cars. Bicycles appear out of nowhere and disappear. Also, cyclists - no better or worse than their automobile counterparts - don't always drive well, and they do things that cars don't such as weaving through small spaces between cars; running lights as if they are pedestrians, but on the road; appearing from sidewalks and other places - really anyplace. I don't object to creative driving - as I said, (city) drivers aren't much different in their way - but it makes bikes unpredictable and hard to see. Then there's the speed difference - bikes much slower than traffic are as dangerous as cars driving that speed (again, except I can see the cars). As long as there's one lane - and if cyclists 'own the lane' and don't let cars squeeze by - it's safe: you can see the bike; multiple lanes and the bike ends up in blind spots, weaving back and forth itself, etc. I read that in (Belgium? The Netherlands?) the law is that if there is a small (10 km/h?) difference in speed between cars and bikes, they cannot share the road.
- 7e 5mo ago
  Cyclists never do everything right, though. Contested stop signs are a prime example. For every cyclist who stops properly, 99 blaze through with attitude. They are lawless, and cause safety issues for drivers who have to deal with it. You’ll also see them run red lights, cut off pedestrians, bike right into oncoming traffic (in the same lane, no less), cut across three lanes of without blinking. All in the name of laziness, not safety.
hoherd 5mo ago
I'm sure lots of cyclists have anecdata about that hatred. My personal favorite was somebody in a Santa Clara neighborhood a block from the DMV shouting at me to "get off the f***ing road!" Clearly they didn't read the part of the DMV manual that mentions that bicycles must "not ride on the sidewalk"[1], and missed that cyclists are allowed full use of the lane. I now live in rural suburban Michigan, and even on these rural backroads I have jerks in trucks yelling at me on my e-bike going 20+ mph to "get out of the f***ing way". Maybe those people do not represent the majority, but it feels like they do, and those actions feel threatening when coming from a multi-ton vehicle directed at a 75 pound vehicle. (Fat-bike ebikes are heavy.) It's also odd to experience this on a rural road on a lake shoreline because isn't the countryside supposed to be slow paced? 1. https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/handbook/california-driver-handbook/laws-and-rules-of-the-road-cont1/ https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/handbook/california-driver-han...
- DangitBobby 5mo ago
  My personal favorite was someone shouting "go back to California!" our their window. I'm a TN native born and raised. Second favorite was, a truck did an illegal pass maneuver around me on a blind turn (another 15s and we'd be around the curve) and almost hit another truck head on, then raced off. The driver of the truck that almost got hit rolled down his window and asked me "do you really have to ride here?"
  - 8note 5mo ago
    i feel like you should have a petition ready in hand for that moment to respond > not if you sign this to get dedicated infrastructure put in
ervine 5mo ago
None of this has been my experience.
sl_convertible 5mo ago
We just had a death on the road, from a driver hitting a cyclist in a group. I'm a life-long cyclists, and I now am somewhat fearful about cycling on the road. I see so many groups that take an entire lane and not even care about the cars behind them - it's easy to understand the frustration of the drivers. It's a knotty problem, I wish we had more bicycle lanes.
- DangitBobby 5mo ago
  Obviously I wasn't there for the "taking the lane" circumstances you've seen, but where I live there are very few sections of road where it would be safe for a vehicle to attempt to occupy the lane while a group of cyclists are in it, and cars should be overtaking instead. It's no more difficult for a car to overtake when the cyclists are "taking the lane."
rcxdude 5mo ago
As a general rule, with this kind of thing, if you're not in a group that's targeted by such comments, you are probably not going to see those comments. Even if the majority don't care, it only takes a small hateful minority to create a lot of hate aimed at a given group.
7e 5mo ago
Yes, many bicyclists are straight up obnoxious and unsafe, and without any license plates on the bikes, it’s hard to hold them to the proper lawful behavior.
whateveracct 5mo ago
[flagged]
antonvs 5mo ago
I love the way you start out claiming there's a victim mentality and then end up expressing your hatred of cyclists. The truth will out...
mrgoldenbrown 5mo ago
Look at the recent Boston mayoral election. Kraft used bike lanes as a wedge issue to try to unseat our incumbent mayor. It worked well enough that she tore out flexposts from a bunch of lanes.

by mmooss 5mo ago

DangitBobby 5mo ago

You clearly haven't spent much time on YouTube, TikTok, Twitter, FaceBook, or really anywhere there is a huge community. Americans fucking HATE cyclists. > The great majority don't care about it My own dad will take any opportunity to actively bitch about perceived annoyances perpetrated by cyclists and opine about how useless bike lanes are expensive and not actually productive because people only use them for exercise. Why don't you try actually bringing up cyclists and bike lanes somewhere, especially in the south, and then you tell me what people think.

mmooss 5mo ago
> Americans fucking HATE cyclists. I haven't met those Americans, somehow. Maybe it's just more social media nonsense - people joining the mob fun and far overestimating the loud voices?
- DangitBobby 5mo ago
  Did you ask them? Lots of things I don't like don't come up until it's relevant.
  - 8note 5mo ago
    i certainly dislike that roads everywhere are so wide so as to support two rows of parked cars and then also two lanes of car traffic. that could easily be another row of houses or a pretty big park, over and over and over again through the whole city. its an incredible amount of government money and city land tied up in black top that needs regular resurfacing, cleaning, plowing, etc
- snayan 5mo ago
  This feels more like a the company you keep situation than social media nonsense. You happen to have a social circle that doesn't have any issues with cyclists, perhaps there are a number of them in your group. But there are almost assuredly social circles that feel otherwise, that revel at the opportunity to roll coal as they pass a group of cyclists, that joke about running them off the road. A quick google indicates there have been numerous studies on the subject that seem to support the idea that bicyclists are often reviled by some portion of the population, correlated with those who rely heavily on automobiles. And, I mean, just scrolling this thread seems to show plenty of anecdotes to support the idea. Seems pretty systemic given the breadth of the anecdata.
  - mmooss 5mo ago
    I could be wrong, but ... > just scrolling this thread seems to show plenty of anecdotes to support the idea. Seems pretty systemic given the breadth of the anecdata That reasoning is the epitome of social media self-deception.
    - snayan 5mo ago
      I mean sure, if you just ignore the rest of my comment and take that piece in isolation, then I suppose it could further support your claim.
Fricken 5mo ago
Drivers mostly hate on other drivers, but they make time to hate other road users as well.

impendia 5mo ago

Some drivers seem to resent the idea that they should have to share the road, or slow down for anyone. Even if cyclists do everything right, they're still slower than cars, and so will present at least a minor inconvenience for drivers. In Canada the fight has gotten nasty, with governments in Alberta and Ontario putting forward legislation that could remove existing bike lanes. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-ford-bike-lane-toronto-court-ruling-1.7597460 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-ford-bike-lan... https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/alberta-government-bike-lanes-legislation-9.7195867 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/alberta-government-b... Maybe "hatred" is too strong of a word, but if I were a cyclist in Toronto or Edmonton I'd feel rather victimized.

mmooss 5mo ago
While I think cycling is great - environmentally, for health, apparently for mental health - bikes and cars don't mix unless they are going approx. the same speed in 1-2 lanes. Driving a car, bicycles are hard to see - I wouldn't be surprised if visibility in cars is specified to be sufficient to see other cars. Bicycles appear out of nowhere and disappear. Also, cyclists - no better or worse than their automobile counterparts - don't always drive well, and they do things that cars don't such as weaving through small spaces between cars; running lights as if they are pedestrians, but on the road; appearing from sidewalks and other places - really anyplace. I don't object to creative driving - as I said, (city) drivers aren't much different in their way - but it makes bikes unpredictable and hard to see. Then there's the speed difference - bikes much slower than traffic are as dangerous as cars driving that speed (again, except I can see the cars). As long as there's one lane - and if cyclists 'own the lane' and don't let cars squeeze by - it's safe: you can see the bike; multiple lanes and the bike ends up in blind spots, weaving back and forth itself, etc. I read that in (Belgium? The Netherlands?) the law is that if there is a small (10 km/h?) difference in speed between cars and bikes, they cannot share the road.
7e 5mo ago
Cyclists never do everything right, though. Contested stop signs are a prime example. For every cyclist who stops properly, 99 blaze through with attitude. They are lawless, and cause safety issues for drivers who have to deal with it. You’ll also see them run red lights, cut off pedestrians, bike right into oncoming traffic (in the same lane, no less), cut across three lanes of without blinking. All in the name of laziness, not safety.

hoherd 5mo ago

I'm sure lots of cyclists have anecdata about that hatred. My personal favorite was somebody in a Santa Clara neighborhood a block from the DMV shouting at me to "get off the f***ing road!" Clearly they didn't read the part of the DMV manual that mentions that bicycles must "not ride on the sidewalk"[1], and missed that cyclists are allowed full use of the lane. I now live in rural suburban Michigan, and even on these rural backroads I have jerks in trucks yelling at me on my e-bike going 20+ mph to "get out of the f***ing way". Maybe those people do not represent the majority, but it feels like they do, and those actions feel threatening when coming from a multi-ton vehicle directed at a 75 pound vehicle. (Fat-bike ebikes are heavy.) It's also odd to experience this on a rural road on a lake shoreline because isn't the countryside supposed to be slow paced? 1. https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/handbook/california-driver-handbook/laws-and-rules-of-the-road-cont1/ https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/handbook/california-driver-han...

DangitBobby 5mo ago
My personal favorite was someone shouting "go back to California!" our their window. I'm a TN native born and raised. Second favorite was, a truck did an illegal pass maneuver around me on a blind turn (another 15s and we'd be around the curve) and almost hit another truck head on, then raced off. The driver of the truck that almost got hit rolled down his window and asked me "do you really have to ride here?"
- 8note 5mo ago
  i feel like you should have a petition ready in hand for that moment to respond > not if you sign this to get dedicated infrastructure put in

ervine 5mo ago

None of this has been my experience.

sl_convertible 5mo ago

We just had a death on the road, from a driver hitting a cyclist in a group. I'm a life-long cyclists, and I now am somewhat fearful about cycling on the road. I see so many groups that take an entire lane and not even care about the cars behind them - it's easy to understand the frustration of the drivers. It's a knotty problem, I wish we had more bicycle lanes.

DangitBobby 5mo ago
Obviously I wasn't there for the "taking the lane" circumstances you've seen, but where I live there are very few sections of road where it would be safe for a vehicle to attempt to occupy the lane while a group of cyclists are in it, and cars should be overtaking instead. It's no more difficult for a car to overtake when the cyclists are "taking the lane."

rcxdude 5mo ago

As a general rule, with this kind of thing, if you're not in a group that's targeted by such comments, you are probably not going to see those comments. Even if the majority don't care, it only takes a small hateful minority to create a lot of hate aimed at a given group.

7e 5mo ago

Yes, many bicyclists are straight up obnoxious and unsafe, and without any license plates on the bikes, it’s hard to hold them to the proper lawful behavior.

whateveracct 5mo ago

[flagged]

antonvs 5mo ago

I love the way you start out claiming there's a victim mentality and then end up expressing your hatred of cyclists. The truth will out...

mrgoldenbrown 5mo ago

Look at the recent Boston mayoral election. Kraft used bike lanes as a wedge issue to try to unseat our incumbent mayor. It worked well enough that she tore out flexposts from a bunch of lanes.