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They are running fabs at 100% capacity. New fabs take many years to build, cost billions, and are out of date within a few process moves. One cannot simply "fl
by FuriouslyAdrift 5mo ago
They are running fabs at 100% capacity. New fabs take many years to build, cost billions, and are out of date within a few process moves.
One cannot simply "flood the market" or the Chinese would have done it ages ago.
- adrian_b 5mo agoThe Chinese memory makers have been sabotaged by USA, otherwise they would have already "flooded the market" and reduced the prices. Even so, the production of cheaper Chinese DDR5 memory is increasing despite not being able to import all the tools and materials that are needed, so eventually they will benefit from this memory shortage that allows them to gain market share that they would not have gained otherwise.
- ijidak 5mo agoI'd like to learn more about how they've been sabotaged. What happened?
- deleted 5mo ago[deleted]
- joe_mamba 5mo agoGoogle US semiconductor sanctions on China. Basically US (and allies pressed by US) aren't allowed to export their most cutting edge semiconductor tools and materials to China, so China can only make chips using older-gen tools on older process nodes than western-aligned competitors. The other part of the sabotage is that western companies then have restrictions on what chips they're allowed to buy from China. IDK if RAM chips are also on that list.
- joshuaissac 5mo ago> IDK if RAM chips are also on that list. Apple cancelled their deal with YMTC (Chinese RAM company) after the US sanctioned the latter. I don't know whether that is directly because of the sanctions, or indirectly (e.g. if Apple thought sanctions would hamper YMTC's ability to supply the goods), but they have had the same effect. https://www.lightreading.com/business-management/chinese-chipmaker-courted-by-apple-faces-risk-of-us-sanctions https://www.lightreading.com/business-management/chinese-chi... https://www.business-standard.com/article/international/apple-halts-its-plan-to-use-chips-from-china-s-ymtc-say-reports-122101700771_1.html https://www.business-standard.com/article/international/appl...
- spunker540 5mo agoI dont know if trade sanctions counts as "sabotage" but point taken.
- FireBeyond 5mo agoWell it kinda counts as self-sabotage now, at least in effect. We shot ourselves in the foot so China couldn't compete as easily.
- NavinF 5mo agoIs any of that relevant to RAM? Half the DRAM is non-EUV and pretty much all DRAM has been stuck on 10nm for the last decade
- HFguy 5mo agoThat isn't "sabotage". Those are export restrictions. China also runs adverse competitive industrial policies (e.g., industrial spying, flooding markets). Not making value judgment here. You have quite the post history BTW.
- cogman10 5mo ago> and are out of date within a few process moves. The fabs themselves (especially for memory) are being retooled for process moves. At least that's what micron has been doing. But otherwise I agree. Micron has a new fab being built that was started around 2020. It's nowhere near finished.