4 ms·

It's not that test scores are somehow the least bad option. It's that they're the cheapest least bad option. Actually assessing a students comprehension would r

It's not that test scores are somehow the least bad option. It's that they're the cheapest least bad option. Actually assessing a students comprehension would require a verbal examination.

mattmaroon 18y ago
By who? Then you're getting into subjective territory. What if the examiner doesn't like the student or is having a bad day? Both of those have been shown to have subtle effects on that sort of thing. Even a teacher who considers herself fair will subconsciously lean toward grading students they dislike worse than ones they like. Or what if the student knows the material but isn't a very good talker? Tests are considerably more objective, which is why they're the least bad option. I'll take an objective measure over a possibly superior but significantly more subjective measure any day if accuracy is the goal.
- inglorian 18y ago
  I'm not sure...in your parent post, you mentioned being "accurate to life" as an important measure. While subjective, verbal examinations (and all the possible unfairness they entail) can be significantly more true to life (in the real-world, post-school sense) than the multiple-choice/short-answer tests that are common today. "Objective" tests are best for only the very few things that can be "objectively" measured. Often, they succeed only in rewarding mediocrity and parroting.
  - mattmaroon 18y ago
    How does a math test, or a history test, or an SAT reward mediocrity or parroting?
    - Raphael 18y ago
      You parrot the practice tests.
      - mattmaroon 18y ago
        That's not a good strategy since the questions are different.
        Raphael 18y ago
        Does the phrase "plug and chug" mean anything to you?
        yters 18y ago
        I boosted my SAT scores 100 point with practice tests, by getting a sense of how the questions were written.
- nostrademons 18y ago
  My high school measured performance through "Exhibitions" and "Gateways" (the difference was that an Exhibition was usually the culmination of a 2ish month long project, while a Gateway was the culmination of a 2 year Division, roughly equivalent to 2 grades in a conventional school). The requirements for a Gateway were: 1.) A substantial portfolio - we usually needed 2-3 pieces of work that met the standards for advancement into the next Division, in each skill area (there were like 6 core skill areas). 2.) An oral presentation of one of those pieces of work in front of a panel of judges, similar to a thesis defense. The panel would have 4-5 people and would usually consist of one's teachers in the subject area (all classes were team-taught, so we had 2 teachers), a teacher who was not one of ours, a classmate, and an outside community member. The oldest graduates of my high school are only 4 years out of college now, so it's hard to judge how successful this is. But consider that the first two graduating classes were 32 and 48 students, respectively. Of those, I'm at Google. One engineering-ish friend is at Intuit. Two classmates are at Harvard Law, one of whom spent a couple years at Bain beforehand. There're a bunch that have gone into teaching, and several that have started blue-collar businesses (the school was in central Massachusetts, which has much less of a knowledge economy than the immediate Boston area).

It's not that test scores are somehow the least bad option. It's that they're the cheapest least bad option. Actually assessing a students comprehension would require a verbal examination.

mattmaroon 18y ago

By who? Then you're getting into subjective territory. What if the examiner doesn't like the student or is having a bad day? Both of those have been shown to have subtle effects on that sort of thing. Even a teacher who considers herself fair will subconsciously lean toward grading students they dislike worse than ones they like. Or what if the student knows the material but isn't a very good talker? Tests are considerably more objective, which is why they're the least bad option. I'll take an objective measure over a possibly superior but significantly more subjective measure any day if accuracy is the goal.

inglorian 18y ago
I'm not sure...in your parent post, you mentioned being "accurate to life" as an important measure. While subjective, verbal examinations (and all the possible unfairness they entail) can be significantly more true to life (in the real-world, post-school sense) than the multiple-choice/short-answer tests that are common today. "Objective" tests are best for only the very few things that can be "objectively" measured. Often, they succeed only in rewarding mediocrity and parroting.
- mattmaroon 18y ago
  How does a math test, or a history test, or an SAT reward mediocrity or parroting?
  - Raphael 18y ago
    You parrot the practice tests.
    - mattmaroon 18y ago
      That's not a good strategy since the questions are different.
      - Raphael 18y ago
        Does the phrase "plug and chug" mean anything to you?
      - yters 18y ago
        I boosted my SAT scores 100 point with practice tests, by getting a sense of how the questions were written.
nostrademons 18y ago
My high school measured performance through "Exhibitions" and "Gateways" (the difference was that an Exhibition was usually the culmination of a 2ish month long project, while a Gateway was the culmination of a 2 year Division, roughly equivalent to 2 grades in a conventional school). The requirements for a Gateway were: 1.) A substantial portfolio - we usually needed 2-3 pieces of work that met the standards for advancement into the next Division, in each skill area (there were like 6 core skill areas). 2.) An oral presentation of one of those pieces of work in front of a panel of judges, similar to a thesis defense. The panel would have 4-5 people and would usually consist of one's teachers in the subject area (all classes were team-taught, so we had 2 teachers), a teacher who was not one of ours, a classmate, and an outside community member. The oldest graduates of my high school are only 4 years out of college now, so it's hard to judge how successful this is. But consider that the first two graduating classes were 32 and 48 students, respectively. Of those, I'm at Google. One engineering-ish friend is at Intuit. Two classmates are at Harvard Law, one of whom spent a couple years at Bain beforehand. There're a bunch that have gone into teaching, and several that have started blue-collar businesses (the school was in central Massachusetts, which has much less of a knowledge economy than the immediate Boston area).