3 ms·

AI data centers are eating like 80% of memory. Making user space applications more memory efficient is not even going to be a rounding error on memory demand.

AI data centers are eating like 80% of memory. Making user space applications more memory efficient is not even going to be a rounding error on memory demand. I am with you that it needs to happen, but it's not going to solve a memory shortage.

H8crilA 5mo ago
It would make memory-poor phones more viable. Like why can't we have a 512MB, or even 256MB RAM phone. Although I doubt that the software effort would be cheaper than just buying the extra RAM. It's definitely much more uncertain.
- zozbot234 5mo ago
  Those exist, they're just feature phones. Smartphones have to run general purpose apps and that takes RAM.
  - H8crilA 5mo ago
    That was my point, make it so that apps can run on that RAM budget. At least some apps.
    - pabs3 5mo ago
      The OpenMoko Freerunner only had 128MB RAM, it was able to run a Linux desktop of the time, Englightenment/E16. There were lots of apps for it too. IIRC the cut down QtMoko distro ran best though. https://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo_Freerunner https://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo_Freerunner https://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Applications https://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Applications https://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/QtMoko https://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/QtMoko Before that Linux ran on the Zaurus too: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharp_Zaurus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharp_Zaurus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenZaurus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenZaurus
zozbot234 5mo ago
That's newly fabbed memory vs. an existing stock. The stock is quite massive, so optimizing existing use and enabling it to be repurposed can be meaningful.
- onlyrealcuzzo 5mo ago
  Not really... If the new memory is needed for AI data centers, it doesn't matter if your existing MacBook doesn't need as much memory anymore.
  - zozbot234 5mo ago
    If the existing MacBook needs less memory, it can use its current memory spec for higher-level uses that formerly required a MacBook Pro. That meaningfully affects the market.
    - onlyrealcuzzo 5mo ago
      You don't seem to understand supply and demand. That does not help the demand side for AI data centers - which is the vast majority of the market...
      - zozbot234 5mo ago
        If your point is purely about supply and demand for datacenter HBM and LPDDR, you're probably right. Local model inference (using the existing memory stock) can make a dent in current use, but not in projected future uses that will plausibly involve much larger models.

H8crilA 5mo ago

It would make memory-poor phones more viable. Like why can't we have a 512MB, or even 256MB RAM phone. Although I doubt that the software effort would be cheaper than just buying the extra RAM. It's definitely much more uncertain.

zozbot234 5mo ago
Those exist, they're just feature phones. Smartphones have to run general purpose apps and that takes RAM.
- H8crilA 5mo ago
  That was my point, make it so that apps can run on that RAM budget. At least some apps.
  - pabs3 5mo ago
    The OpenMoko Freerunner only had 128MB RAM, it was able to run a Linux desktop of the time, Englightenment/E16. There were lots of apps for it too. IIRC the cut down QtMoko distro ran best though. https://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo_Freerunner https://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo_Freerunner https://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Applications https://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Applications https://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/QtMoko https://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/QtMoko Before that Linux ran on the Zaurus too: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharp_Zaurus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharp_Zaurus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenZaurus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenZaurus

zozbot234 5mo ago

That's newly fabbed memory vs. an existing stock. The stock is quite massive, so optimizing existing use and enabling it to be repurposed can be meaningful.

onlyrealcuzzo 5mo ago
Not really... If the new memory is needed for AI data centers, it doesn't matter if your existing MacBook doesn't need as much memory anymore.
- zozbot234 5mo ago
  If the existing MacBook needs less memory, it can use its current memory spec for higher-level uses that formerly required a MacBook Pro. That meaningfully affects the market.
  - onlyrealcuzzo 5mo ago
    You don't seem to understand supply and demand. That does not help the demand side for AI data centers - which is the vast majority of the market...
    - zozbot234 5mo ago
      If your point is purely about supply and demand for datacenter HBM and LPDDR, you're probably right. Local model inference (using the existing memory stock) can make a dent in current use, but not in projected future uses that will plausibly involve much larger models.