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Both-sides nonsense. We’re decades past assuming good faith from people who equate criticizing Israel with racism.

dijit 5mo ago
There's so much documented evidence of people attacking jewish people who they call zionists without cause that I find this line of reasoning stupid. In recent memory there was Ethan Klein, who is Jewish and has visited Israel but is openly critical of Israeli actions and supports Palestine; yet people harassed him and his wife constantly about him being Jewish. I'd totally buy your argument, criticising Hamas isn't the same as being racist to Muslims, and criticising the actions of Israel is not the same as being anti-semetic. I also buy the fact that Israel will defend themselves by claiming racism, something I've seen Muslims do in the UK too. I'm absolutely saying both sides, because ultimately both sides seem to think it's ok to murder children, or to use people as pawns to be be killed to further their expansionist efforts. But It's absolutely true that people are just abusing random jews under the mistaken belief that all jews are zionists, or all jews support israel. Fuck, even people who live in Israel will condemn IDF actions.. There exists nuance of people on the Palestinian side online, yet that affordance is not afforded to Jews. I find that quite ironic, and I'm personally not very chill with hypocrites. Anyone defending rape or child murder is a fucking monster. There is never valid justification, not even if the kid is carrying a suicide vest.
- keybored 5mo ago
  > There's so much documented evidence of people attacking jewish people who they call zionists without cause that I find this line of reasoning stupid. Attacking people for any reason is unacceptable. Including for being Jewish of course. Assuming that they were truly attacked and not just disagreed with or something. > In recent memory there was Ethan Klein, who is Jewish Being Jewish or not (or any ethnicity) is irrelevant. > and has visited Israel Has lived in Israel. > but is openly critical of Israeli actions and supports Palestine; yet people harassed him and his wife constantly about him being Jewish. I can’t know what all people who criticize a celebrity has done. But the people I’ve seen has criticized him solely for his politics. Not for his ethnicity. Yes, exactly for being a Zionist. Because that’s what he expresses. Not a light or milquetoast kind either. He might say that he wishes that Palestinians have a good life, blah blah. That’s irrelevant when he defends Israel’s actions and argues against the fact that Palestinians are second-class citizens in Israel. His wife served in the IDF and voluntarily, at her own request, moved from an office job in “Israel proper” to a more operative role in the West Bank because she was bored. And got to experience the excitement of being a ride-along on an armed raid in the West Bank. And as opposed to his critics, I have seen antisemitic remarks from Ethan Klein from his time in Israel.
  - dijit 5mo ago
    Ethan Klein is a terrible example for your argument. He debated Hasan Piker for five hours a year ago and clarified, clearly, an anti-Zionist, pro-Palestinian position on the record. You seem to have decided he's a Zionist anyway. You just proved my point. Defend any entity that harms children without accountability (Israeli government, Hamas) -- you've picked a side. That's not conviction. That's tribalism. And sure, let's litigate world affairs from a link aggregator. These aren't factions in a strategy game; they're people with guns doing horrid things to people who can't fight back, hiding behind whoever will defend them. The killed, starved and sexually abused are actual humans. We're somehow expected to say one side is more justified in this? It's not Red vs Blue man. Gtfo.
    - keybored 5mo ago
      I just proved your point by disagreeing with you. Do you hear yourself? No he’s a Zionist judging by what his positions are; you can’t have so many Zionist opinions and then null and void them by saying “but I am not a Zionist”. > Defend any entity [...] The killed, starved [...] Thousands upon thousands of pro-Palestinian have enough on their minds just lamenting the untold numbers of innocent civilians that Israel has murdered. They hardly have time to talk about Hamas, or whoever it is that you are both-siding, even if they wanted to.
      - dijit 5mo ago
        Disagreeing with me doesn't prove the point. Deciding he's a Zionist based on what you think he believes, rather than what he's actually said on record, that proves it. Come back with receipts or don't bother. And that's the thing isn't it: you're not actually against suffering, you're against suffering by the right people. Klein catches flak for being Jewish and insufficiently hostile, meanwhile the bar for the other side is apparently just... existing. That's not a principled position. "Too busy grieving to talk about Hamas", that's exactly how some Israelis feel when they hide IDF soldiers from justice, and I condemn them for it too. You've just described the problem and handed it to me as a defence. Pathetic.

dijit 5mo ago

There's so much documented evidence of people attacking jewish people who they call zionists without cause that I find this line of reasoning stupid. In recent memory there was Ethan Klein, who is Jewish and has visited Israel but is openly critical of Israeli actions and supports Palestine; yet people harassed him and his wife constantly about him being Jewish. I'd totally buy your argument, criticising Hamas isn't the same as being racist to Muslims, and criticising the actions of Israel is not the same as being anti-semetic. I also buy the fact that Israel will defend themselves by claiming racism, something I've seen Muslims do in the UK too. I'm absolutely saying both sides, because ultimately both sides seem to think it's ok to murder children, or to use people as pawns to be be killed to further their expansionist efforts. But It's absolutely true that people are just abusing random jews under the mistaken belief that all jews are zionists, or all jews support israel. Fuck, even people who live in Israel will condemn IDF actions.. There exists nuance of people on the Palestinian side online, yet that affordance is not afforded to Jews. I find that quite ironic, and I'm personally not very chill with hypocrites. Anyone defending rape or child murder is a fucking monster. There is never valid justification, not even if the kid is carrying a suicide vest.

keybored 5mo ago
> There's so much documented evidence of people attacking jewish people who they call zionists without cause that I find this line of reasoning stupid. Attacking people for any reason is unacceptable. Including for being Jewish of course. Assuming that they were truly attacked and not just disagreed with or something. > In recent memory there was Ethan Klein, who is Jewish Being Jewish or not (or any ethnicity) is irrelevant. > and has visited Israel Has lived in Israel. > but is openly critical of Israeli actions and supports Palestine; yet people harassed him and his wife constantly about him being Jewish. I can’t know what all people who criticize a celebrity has done. But the people I’ve seen has criticized him solely for his politics. Not for his ethnicity. Yes, exactly for being a Zionist. Because that’s what he expresses. Not a light or milquetoast kind either. He might say that he wishes that Palestinians have a good life, blah blah. That’s irrelevant when he defends Israel’s actions and argues against the fact that Palestinians are second-class citizens in Israel. His wife served in the IDF and voluntarily, at her own request, moved from an office job in “Israel proper” to a more operative role in the West Bank because she was bored. And got to experience the excitement of being a ride-along on an armed raid in the West Bank. And as opposed to his critics, I have seen antisemitic remarks from Ethan Klein from his time in Israel.
- dijit 5mo ago
  Ethan Klein is a terrible example for your argument. He debated Hasan Piker for five hours a year ago and clarified, clearly, an anti-Zionist, pro-Palestinian position on the record. You seem to have decided he's a Zionist anyway. You just proved my point. Defend any entity that harms children without accountability (Israeli government, Hamas) -- you've picked a side. That's not conviction. That's tribalism. And sure, let's litigate world affairs from a link aggregator. These aren't factions in a strategy game; they're people with guns doing horrid things to people who can't fight back, hiding behind whoever will defend them. The killed, starved and sexually abused are actual humans. We're somehow expected to say one side is more justified in this? It's not Red vs Blue man. Gtfo.
  - keybored 5mo ago
    I just proved your point by disagreeing with you. Do you hear yourself? No he’s a Zionist judging by what his positions are; you can’t have so many Zionist opinions and then null and void them by saying “but I am not a Zionist”. > Defend any entity [...] The killed, starved [...] Thousands upon thousands of pro-Palestinian have enough on their minds just lamenting the untold numbers of innocent civilians that Israel has murdered. They hardly have time to talk about Hamas, or whoever it is that you are both-siding, even if they wanted to.
    - dijit 5mo ago
      Disagreeing with me doesn't prove the point. Deciding he's a Zionist based on what you think he believes, rather than what he's actually said on record, that proves it. Come back with receipts or don't bother. And that's the thing isn't it: you're not actually against suffering, you're against suffering by the right people. Klein catches flak for being Jewish and insufficiently hostile, meanwhile the bar for the other side is apparently just... existing. That's not a principled position. "Too busy grieving to talk about Hamas", that's exactly how some Israelis feel when they hide IDF soldiers from justice, and I condemn them for it too. You've just described the problem and handed it to me as a defence. Pathetic.