3 ms·

> Nothing fair, or just, about this world we live in We all make different choices, and so have different consequences. For example, I squandered the proceeds

> Nothing fair, or just, about this world we live in We all make different choices, and so have different consequences. For example, I squandered the proceeds of a business deal on a new car. If I'd bought MSFT instead, I could have bought 100 new cars.

pjc50 6mo ago
If I'd simply written the correct numbers on last week's lottery ticket, I could do that. (hindsight stock picking is terrible!)
account42 6mo ago
So what you're saying is that we all just need to become better gamblers? That doesn't exactly scream functional society to me. Besides, this can't work for everyone - if you get 100 cars without an equivalent amount of more work put in then someone else has to do that work without being properly compensated for it.
- sokoloff 6mo ago
  It shifts the gains away from the marginal investor in Microsoft who was only willing to pay a penny less for those shares (probably an eighth of a dollar when this anecdote happened). Instead of them getting the 100 cars, the buyer who was willing to hit the ask earlier gets them. That profit comes from owning a piece of a productive company, productive companies often spring from early-stage losses that require investment money from somewhere, seed stage money comes from the high likelihood that later stage money will come in if the venture appears successful.
  - hackyhacky 6mo ago
    Your comment does not address the (imho reasonable) criticism that the described system incentivizes gambling as the key to wealth, rather than labor. There are many problems with a gambling based economy, not least among them that over a long enough time line, all the money ends in very few hands.
    - sokoloff 6mo ago
      I don’t view long-term investing in productive companies as anything close to gambling.
      - hackyhacky 6mo ago
        Which is fine, except that one can't know in advance which companies will continue to be productive..that's why it's gambling.
        sokoloff 6mo ago
        Feel free to avoid it if you think it’s gambling. https://www.macrotrends.net/2324/sp-500-historical-chart-data https://www.macrotrends.net/2324/sp-500-historical-chart-dat...
        hackyhacky 6mo ago
        This does nothing to support your point.
        sokoloff 5mo ago
        Studying that chart might reveal a way to long-term invest in a way that isn't anything like gambling. Or, I might be completely wrong and just been on an incredible white-hot-streak gambling for the last 30 years.
        hackyhacky 5mo ago
        "I can win" is not a refutation of the claim that investment is gambling in any way that matters. The more relevant question is: does investment reward productivity (i.e. skill, strength, labor) or does it reward ownership (i.e. those who have capital will continue to accumulate capital)? By your own statement, it seems the latter. All of that money that you've "earned" with investment, where do you think it came from? What do you think you've done to deserve it? If investment is fundamentally risky, then it's an unsound basis for a stable society (i.e. it's gambling); if it's not risky, then you can't even argue that you deserve that money by having risked your own capital.
- WalterBright 5mo ago
  Gambling: the ROI math means you lose money Investing: the ROI math means you make money > So what you're saying is that we all just need to become better gamblers? It means take advantage of the free education you received. Make an assessment of what you enjoy and what you are good at. Select an opportunity in the intersection of those two endeavors. People start businesses every day in America. > Besides, this can't work for everyone Wealth is not zero sum. If you create wealth, that does not mean someone else must be worse off.

pjc50 6mo ago

If I'd simply written the correct numbers on last week's lottery ticket, I could do that. (hindsight stock picking is terrible!)

account42 6mo ago

So what you're saying is that we all just need to become better gamblers? That doesn't exactly scream functional society to me. Besides, this can't work for everyone - if you get 100 cars without an equivalent amount of more work put in then someone else has to do that work without being properly compensated for it.

sokoloff 6mo ago
It shifts the gains away from the marginal investor in Microsoft who was only willing to pay a penny less for those shares (probably an eighth of a dollar when this anecdote happened). Instead of them getting the 100 cars, the buyer who was willing to hit the ask earlier gets them. That profit comes from owning a piece of a productive company, productive companies often spring from early-stage losses that require investment money from somewhere, seed stage money comes from the high likelihood that later stage money will come in if the venture appears successful.
- hackyhacky 6mo ago
  Your comment does not address the (imho reasonable) criticism that the described system incentivizes gambling as the key to wealth, rather than labor. There are many problems with a gambling based economy, not least among them that over a long enough time line, all the money ends in very few hands.
  - sokoloff 6mo ago
    I don’t view long-term investing in productive companies as anything close to gambling.
    - hackyhacky 6mo ago
      Which is fine, except that one can't know in advance which companies will continue to be productive..that's why it's gambling.
      - sokoloff 6mo ago
        Feel free to avoid it if you think it’s gambling. https://www.macrotrends.net/2324/sp-500-historical-chart-data https://www.macrotrends.net/2324/sp-500-historical-chart-dat...
        hackyhacky 6mo ago
        This does nothing to support your point.
        sokoloff 5mo ago
        Studying that chart might reveal a way to long-term invest in a way that isn't anything like gambling. Or, I might be completely wrong and just been on an incredible white-hot-streak gambling for the last 30 years.
        hackyhacky 5mo ago
        "I can win" is not a refutation of the claim that investment is gambling in any way that matters. The more relevant question is: does investment reward productivity (i.e. skill, strength, labor) or does it reward ownership (i.e. those who have capital will continue to accumulate capital)? By your own statement, it seems the latter. All of that money that you've "earned" with investment, where do you think it came from? What do you think you've done to deserve it? If investment is fundamentally risky, then it's an unsound basis for a stable society (i.e. it's gambling); if it's not risky, then you can't even argue that you deserve that money by having risked your own capital.
WalterBright 5mo ago
Gambling: the ROI math means you lose money Investing: the ROI math means you make money > So what you're saying is that we all just need to become better gamblers? It means take advantage of the free education you received. Make an assessment of what you enjoy and what you are good at. Select an opportunity in the intersection of those two endeavors. People start businesses every day in America. > Besides, this can't work for everyone Wealth is not zero sum. If you create wealth, that does not mean someone else must be worse off.