5 ms·

Well yeah America has achieved what the communists sought: public ownership of the means of production . Today most of the American public owns the largest mean

by anon291 5mo ago

Well yeah America has achieved what the communists sought: public ownership of the means of production . Today most of the American public owns the largest means of production in government advantaged accounts. Marx ought to be proud

yogthos 5mo ago
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/wealthiest-10-americans-own-93-033623827.html https://finance.yahoo.com/news/wealthiest-10-americans-own-9...
- foxglacier 5mo ago
  So basically most older professionals, and today's young professionals will step into their shoes as they grow their wealth over time too. Which means probably far more than 10% of the population will at some point in their life belong to that group which owns 90% of the means of production.
  - Swizec 5mo ago
    > will at some point in their life belong to that group which owns 90% of the means of production Would love to but I'm afraid you grossly misunderstand how the power law distribution works. Unfortunately the billionaires are running away from us exponentially faster than we are catching up. Speaking as someone who will almost certainly become a multi millionaire in the next decade or two. (even if I stop adding more savings manually) But crucially this only happens if there _isnt_ a big revolution in USA. If there is, I'm fucked.
    - lIl-IIIl 5mo ago
      >Unfortunately the billionaires are running away from us exponentially faster than we are catching up. Why does that matter? Who is trying to catch up with a billionaire? They are not even playing the same game as the rest of us.
- anon291 5mo ago
  The idea that communism means that everyone owns everything equally is retarded. Communes themselves don't do this. People with more stake get more ownership This corresponds to the first stage of Marxs theorized progession from capitalism too communism Done hate the messenger. I'm just taking what I read and applying it to observed reality and telling you it fit. Self described commies are dumb because they are incapable of enacting the very system they claim to idealize.
  - vasco 5mo ago
    Can you show a commune that has lasted 3 generations? So like people move in, they stay and have kids and their kids stay long enough to have kids themselves. So at least about ~50 years? My impression of all these communes is: - idealistic people move in - they realize 90% of the people that moved in are lazy and don't want to work - the rest of the 10% run the show and the commune either breaks down here or kicks out many people - kids are born, they grow up and by the time they get to university age they find the whole thing cringy and leave to go have normal lives - commune ends Other than some that also degenerate into sexual abuse between members and other weird power games. My impression of these outsider hippie / communist groups is that their failure rate is very high.
    - anon291 5mo ago
      The United States, since most of our means of production is owned by the public. That was the point. The United States has the highest equity ownership rate in the world. We all have a stake in this.
  - yogthos 5mo ago
    That's just an infantile straw man though which has nothing to do with how communism works. Communism simply means that workers own their workplace and are the primary beneficiaries of their labor. In practice this means a mix of state ownership for cross-cutting concerns such as energy production or infrastructure and cooperative ownership for things like light industry. Cooperatives operate exactly the same way as companies owned by capitalists, except workers are in charge of running the company. Huawei is an example of how this works in the real world. Maybe avoid opining on topics you have no idea in the future as not to make an ass of yourself in public.
nielsbot 5mo ago
I want to smoke what you’re smoking!
- anon291 5mo ago
  I'm just starting from first principles on a debate that has ended up being more about neurological orientation rather than anything substantive.
Danox 5mo ago
Actually, it’s the other way around in America the government and the people get to pay for the debt and the Robber Baron insiders get to scuttle away with the profit.
- anon291 5mo ago
  You can argue it's poorly managed, but the ownership structure is whatever it is.

by anon291 5mo ago

yogthos 5mo ago

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/wealthiest-10-americans-own-93-033623827.html https://finance.yahoo.com/news/wealthiest-10-americans-own-9...

foxglacier 5mo ago
So basically most older professionals, and today's young professionals will step into their shoes as they grow their wealth over time too. Which means probably far more than 10% of the population will at some point in their life belong to that group which owns 90% of the means of production.
- Swizec 5mo ago
  > will at some point in their life belong to that group which owns 90% of the means of production Would love to but I'm afraid you grossly misunderstand how the power law distribution works. Unfortunately the billionaires are running away from us exponentially faster than we are catching up. Speaking as someone who will almost certainly become a multi millionaire in the next decade or two. (even if I stop adding more savings manually) But crucially this only happens if there _isnt_ a big revolution in USA. If there is, I'm fucked.
  - lIl-IIIl 5mo ago
    >Unfortunately the billionaires are running away from us exponentially faster than we are catching up. Why does that matter? Who is trying to catch up with a billionaire? They are not even playing the same game as the rest of us.
anon291 5mo ago
The idea that communism means that everyone owns everything equally is retarded. Communes themselves don't do this. People with more stake get more ownership This corresponds to the first stage of Marxs theorized progession from capitalism too communism Done hate the messenger. I'm just taking what I read and applying it to observed reality and telling you it fit. Self described commies are dumb because they are incapable of enacting the very system they claim to idealize.
- vasco 5mo ago
  Can you show a commune that has lasted 3 generations? So like people move in, they stay and have kids and their kids stay long enough to have kids themselves. So at least about ~50 years? My impression of all these communes is: - idealistic people move in - they realize 90% of the people that moved in are lazy and don't want to work - the rest of the 10% run the show and the commune either breaks down here or kicks out many people - kids are born, they grow up and by the time they get to university age they find the whole thing cringy and leave to go have normal lives - commune ends Other than some that also degenerate into sexual abuse between members and other weird power games. My impression of these outsider hippie / communist groups is that their failure rate is very high.
  - anon291 5mo ago
    The United States, since most of our means of production is owned by the public. That was the point. The United States has the highest equity ownership rate in the world. We all have a stake in this.
- yogthos 5mo ago
  That's just an infantile straw man though which has nothing to do with how communism works. Communism simply means that workers own their workplace and are the primary beneficiaries of their labor. In practice this means a mix of state ownership for cross-cutting concerns such as energy production or infrastructure and cooperative ownership for things like light industry. Cooperatives operate exactly the same way as companies owned by capitalists, except workers are in charge of running the company. Huawei is an example of how this works in the real world. Maybe avoid opining on topics you have no idea in the future as not to make an ass of yourself in public.

nielsbot 5mo ago

I want to smoke what you’re smoking!

anon291 5mo ago
I'm just starting from first principles on a debate that has ended up being more about neurological orientation rather than anything substantive.

Danox 5mo ago

Actually, it’s the other way around in America the government and the people get to pay for the debt and the Robber Baron insiders get to scuttle away with the profit.

anon291 5mo ago
You can argue it's poorly managed, but the ownership structure is whatever it is.