5 ms·

This is a pretty big assumption, why would it be a prime export? What makes Mars so great for producing software that would cover the added expense of firing a

by lutze 14y ago

This is a pretty big assumption, why would it be a prime export? What makes Mars so great for producing software that would cover the added expense of firing a programmer all the way there in a rocket?

cryptoz 14y ago
It's virtually free to export software to Earth while it would cost millions to export anything physical. Also, I think you misunderstood me. Its not supposed to cover some cost; the presumed developer chose to go to Mars rather than stay on Earth and buy a house. He pays for the privilege of living on Mars. It's not that Mars is spectacular for building software but rather that's a very cost effective export once you're there.
- lutze 14y ago
  It's even freer to leave the programmer here and not have to export at all.... There's no way a guy on Mars could compete on costs. I think you're also underestimating how much of a premium bandwidth will be too.
  - cryptoz 14y ago
    > It's even freer to leave the programmer here and not have to export at all.... I don't get it. At all. Let's use me as an example: I'm currently in my 20s, a software developer with his mind and heart set on Mars. I'm Elon's target market, basically. So let's say I spend my money to go to Mars and fulfill my life's dreams and goals. You're suggesting that I shouldn't go, because 'git push' and 'git pull' are more expensive? Hah. Ridiculous! > There's no way a guy on Mars could compete on costs. I think you're also underestimating how much of a premium bandwidth will be too. No, I don't think so. Latency is very high, but data rate isn't going to be all that bad - in fact, it might be spectacular as the medium of transit is the near-vacuum of space. Though I agree to a certain extent that costs will generally be higher when building software for Earth. But slow down here, because this was just one example of a segment of a potential Martian economy. We clearly are not going to predict all the details this far out, and we're already debating about the data transmission costs. I think the point here is to take a step back and realize that Martians would certainly have a lot to do, would have their own small (though growing) economy, and that exports to Earth will likely be mostly digital due to shipping costs for physical objects.
    - lutze 14y ago
      You need to calm the fuck down mate, I'm not telling you you can't do anything... I'm saying that production of anything for export is probably not going to be a priority, for a long long time. Generations at the very least. Also, from the way you've blown up here, going off on someone just for throwing out a few doubts, are you absolutely sure you have the right temperament to be locked in a tiny box with other people for a 6 month journey... or possibly the rest of your life? Crikey.
      - cryptoz 14y ago
        I don't see why you're telling me to calm "the fuck" down, after I already said we should slow down the debate. Your swearing at me is unnecessary. As far as production for export not happening for generations: well, I disagree and I think that's completely crazy. I only brought it up as an example that the people living there will not be jobless. I didn't intend on starting some giant export debate, as clearly nobody here has any real idea to what extent there will be exports from Mars within the next 30 years. But yeah, keep insulting me, that'll help this discussion. Edit: If I sounded offended, I partially am. The suggestion that I should stay on Earth because it's cheaper is perhaps the most offensive thing anyone's said to me in a while.
        lutze 14y ago
        The calm down comment was referring to your other post, the WE DON'T CARE one. I'm not telling you you can't, or shouldn't. You want to go to Mars? That's a fucking great aspiration. I'm just saying I don't think software is going to be a major export. Or anything really... unless they find something valuable that's uniquely Martian. Stop being offended by people disagreeing with you.
        cryptoz 14y ago
        You were trying to tell HN that basements are better for us nerds than Mars. That's absurd and I will not just chill back and let that attitude prevail, as it undermines my very existence. It's insulting and it's offensive. Not only that, but it undermines the whole human enterprise of exploration of the unknown. I completely agree with you that software will not be a major export. Nothing will be a major export. But that's completely irrelevant to everything I've said; I'm a programmer, and I will be able to afford a $500,000 house or a trip to Mars in my mid-40s. If I go, I will be unlikely to work a job purely Mars-based, and it makes sense that I would continue with my work as I do here on Earth: writing software. Your suggestions that Earth basements are better for that life is...well, I don't really have words for how offensive that is. I'm not offended by your disagreement with me, I'm offended at your attitude that nerds should stay in Earth basements and not go to amazing places like Mars.
- stcredzero 14y ago
  > It's virtually free to export software to Earth while it would cost millions to export anything physical. I don't think this will remain true. We have materials today that are strong enough to build space elevators on Mars. Heck, there are mountains on Mars that poke up above its atmosphere. We could just build linear accelerators on top of those and voila, we're free of the rocket equation when exporting to Earth and the rest of the solar system.
adriand 14y ago
> What makes Mars so great for producing software that would cover the added expense of firing a programmer all the way there in a rocket? I'm not sure if you're asking this question rhetorically or not, but one answer might be that you wouldn't have nearly as many distractions as on earth. No commuting, no Starbucks, no phone calls (from earth, anyway), no going for a walk or a bike ride, no going to the beach - you get the idea. In fact, spending a lot of time working in some kind of virtual, computerized environment might be the only way to keep from going nuts up there. What's sort of interesting, though, about being on Mars when it comes to an economy is that exporting stuff to Earth might be somewhat questionable. With the exception of digital goods like software and entertainment, the only stuff worth buying on Earth is stuff that can be transported to you, and that would be so costly that your exports better be extremely valuable. While on Mars, if I wrote a program and sold it to you on Earth for $1 million, what good is that $1 million to me? So other than basic bartering among your fellow settlers, I imagine that you'd probably spend most of your time just trying to survive on Mars itself, without exporting much of anything at all. You also can't trade with the native populations, since there aren't any, which is another major departure from most earthbound settlements. I think any attempt to settle on Mars would experience many of the same sort of risks that ultimately doomed the Norse settlement of Greenland between AD 985 to approx 1500.
- codeulike 14y ago
  * imagines trying to push to github from mars
- lutze 14y ago
  Isn't being a basement dwelling shut in already a nerd trope? No need to go to Mars for that, heh.
  - cryptoz 14y ago
    The whole concept here is that we have hundreds of thousands of people who desperately want to live on Mars. You don't seem to be getting that in this comment thread. YES, we know it's cheaper to live on Earth. We. Don't. Care. We want to live on Mars. We will give anything to go live on Mars. It'll cost more. Yes. It'll be tougher. Yes. We. Don't. Care. We want to live on Mars.

by lutze 14y ago

cryptoz 14y ago

It's virtually free to export software to Earth while it would cost millions to export anything physical. Also, I think you misunderstood me. Its not supposed to cover some cost; the presumed developer chose to go to Mars rather than stay on Earth and buy a house. He pays for the privilege of living on Mars. It's not that Mars is spectacular for building software but rather that's a very cost effective export once you're there.

lutze 14y ago
It's even freer to leave the programmer here and not have to export at all.... There's no way a guy on Mars could compete on costs. I think you're also underestimating how much of a premium bandwidth will be too.
- cryptoz 14y ago
  > It's even freer to leave the programmer here and not have to export at all.... I don't get it. At all. Let's use me as an example: I'm currently in my 20s, a software developer with his mind and heart set on Mars. I'm Elon's target market, basically. So let's say I spend my money to go to Mars and fulfill my life's dreams and goals. You're suggesting that I shouldn't go, because 'git push' and 'git pull' are more expensive? Hah. Ridiculous! > There's no way a guy on Mars could compete on costs. I think you're also underestimating how much of a premium bandwidth will be too. No, I don't think so. Latency is very high, but data rate isn't going to be all that bad - in fact, it might be spectacular as the medium of transit is the near-vacuum of space. Though I agree to a certain extent that costs will generally be higher when building software for Earth. But slow down here, because this was just one example of a segment of a potential Martian economy. We clearly are not going to predict all the details this far out, and we're already debating about the data transmission costs. I think the point here is to take a step back and realize that Martians would certainly have a lot to do, would have their own small (though growing) economy, and that exports to Earth will likely be mostly digital due to shipping costs for physical objects.
  - lutze 14y ago
    You need to calm the fuck down mate, I'm not telling you you can't do anything... I'm saying that production of anything for export is probably not going to be a priority, for a long long time. Generations at the very least. Also, from the way you've blown up here, going off on someone just for throwing out a few doubts, are you absolutely sure you have the right temperament to be locked in a tiny box with other people for a 6 month journey... or possibly the rest of your life? Crikey.
    - cryptoz 14y ago
      I don't see why you're telling me to calm "the fuck" down, after I already said we should slow down the debate. Your swearing at me is unnecessary. As far as production for export not happening for generations: well, I disagree and I think that's completely crazy. I only brought it up as an example that the people living there will not be jobless. I didn't intend on starting some giant export debate, as clearly nobody here has any real idea to what extent there will be exports from Mars within the next 30 years. But yeah, keep insulting me, that'll help this discussion. Edit: If I sounded offended, I partially am. The suggestion that I should stay on Earth because it's cheaper is perhaps the most offensive thing anyone's said to me in a while.
      - lutze 14y ago
        The calm down comment was referring to your other post, the WE DON'T CARE one. I'm not telling you you can't, or shouldn't. You want to go to Mars? That's a fucking great aspiration. I'm just saying I don't think software is going to be a major export. Or anything really... unless they find something valuable that's uniquely Martian. Stop being offended by people disagreeing with you.
        cryptoz 14y ago
        You were trying to tell HN that basements are better for us nerds than Mars. That's absurd and I will not just chill back and let that attitude prevail, as it undermines my very existence. It's insulting and it's offensive. Not only that, but it undermines the whole human enterprise of exploration of the unknown. I completely agree with you that software will not be a major export. Nothing will be a major export. But that's completely irrelevant to everything I've said; I'm a programmer, and I will be able to afford a $500,000 house or a trip to Mars in my mid-40s. If I go, I will be unlikely to work a job purely Mars-based, and it makes sense that I would continue with my work as I do here on Earth: writing software. Your suggestions that Earth basements are better for that life is...well, I don't really have words for how offensive that is. I'm not offended by your disagreement with me, I'm offended at your attitude that nerds should stay in Earth basements and not go to amazing places like Mars.
stcredzero 14y ago
> It's virtually free to export software to Earth while it would cost millions to export anything physical. I don't think this will remain true. We have materials today that are strong enough to build space elevators on Mars. Heck, there are mountains on Mars that poke up above its atmosphere. We could just build linear accelerators on top of those and voila, we're free of the rocket equation when exporting to Earth and the rest of the solar system.

adriand 14y ago

> What makes Mars so great for producing software that would cover the added expense of firing a programmer all the way there in a rocket? I'm not sure if you're asking this question rhetorically or not, but one answer might be that you wouldn't have nearly as many distractions as on earth. No commuting, no Starbucks, no phone calls (from earth, anyway), no going for a walk or a bike ride, no going to the beach - you get the idea. In fact, spending a lot of time working in some kind of virtual, computerized environment might be the only way to keep from going nuts up there. What's sort of interesting, though, about being on Mars when it comes to an economy is that exporting stuff to Earth might be somewhat questionable. With the exception of digital goods like software and entertainment, the only stuff worth buying on Earth is stuff that can be transported to you, and that would be so costly that your exports better be extremely valuable. While on Mars, if I wrote a program and sold it to you on Earth for $1 million, what good is that $1 million to me? So other than basic bartering among your fellow settlers, I imagine that you'd probably spend most of your time just trying to survive on Mars itself, without exporting much of anything at all. You also can't trade with the native populations, since there aren't any, which is another major departure from most earthbound settlements. I think any attempt to settle on Mars would experience many of the same sort of risks that ultimately doomed the Norse settlement of Greenland between AD 985 to approx 1500.

codeulike 14y ago
* imagines trying to push to github from mars
lutze 14y ago
Isn't being a basement dwelling shut in already a nerd trope? No need to go to Mars for that, heh.
- cryptoz 14y ago
  The whole concept here is that we have hundreds of thousands of people who desperately want to live on Mars. You don't seem to be getting that in this comment thread. YES, we know it's cheaper to live on Earth. We. Don't. Care. We want to live on Mars. We will give anything to go live on Mars. It'll cost more. Yes. It'll be tougher. Yes. We. Don't. Care. We want to live on Mars.