4 ms·

> What we basically need is a completely new protocol stack that is not interoperable with TCP/IP. You cannot solve social problems using technical solutions.

> What we basically need is a completely new protocol stack that is not interoperable with TCP/IP. You cannot solve social problems using technical solutions. Someone would simply build a bridge and siphon data out or in. Interoperability is one of those low-hanging fruits that, once solved, ruins its value.

tomrod 5mo ago
You can solve a ton of social problems with technical solutions. 100 different, easy to integrate internets federated across a number of different communication technologies and protocols is actually very hard to regulate and capture. Sure, you won't have another Facebook, but we children of the 70s, 80s,and 90s would ser value in that.
- han1 5mo ago
  [flagged]
  - Eji1700 5mo ago
    Because THIS TIME it'll just take the passing of the older generation for all of societies ills to be solved. We either design with human nature in mind or accept that things will degrade.
- PaulDavisThe1st 5mo ago
  When I was but a youngster, the "internet" part of "internet protocol" was precisely that. When I was a novice programmer, we used to move packets between DECnet, IP and X.500 networks all the time. When I didn't know much about computers, networks were federated by default. The thing is, time went by and we realized that IP was just better than all the others, and everybody started using it for everything. And if you're making the claim that the root of problems like walled gardens and enshittification is the internet protocol ... get outa here.
- raincole 5mo ago
  What you described is the internet. The 'inter-' prefix means that.
throwaway613746 5mo ago
[dead]
kettlecorn 5mo ago
I have wondered if a pseudo-social / pseudo-technical solution of some sort of trust graph could help. Like you would say who you think is credible and human. An algorithm would evaluate trust on your behalf and it would look to the people you trust, and then who they trust, and so on and assign scores to people. Distrust, or even other observations, could percolate in a similar way. Then on social networks, or some sort of small-web, new users would need to find other people to vouch for them to establish trust. When viewing websites or social media posts the trust score of users could be shown alongside content, and used to filter feeds / visibility. A troll or bot could rather rapidly get picked up by a network of distrust so they could be filtered out quickly. The algorithms and details of such a thing are fuzzy to me, and I think a lot of care and thought would be needed to try to ensure it doesn't collapse under subtle flaws with time.
- stackghost 5mo ago
  >I have wondered if a pseudo-social / pseudo-technical solution of some sort of trust graph could help. I'm actually building this
  - geoah 5mo ago
    been playing around with similar stuff as well just for fun but I'm not happy with any solution so far :( -- if there is anything you can share I'd love to take a peek :)
- anal_reactor 5mo ago
  This solution has been tried again and again and each time it failed: 1. Most websites that aren't dead had huge influx of new users at some point of their history. Recommendation system cannot handle that - it becomes a bottleneck, and people move to a competitor that doesn't have this problem. 2. Suppose you have a community and you say that each new user needs to be at least 99% compatible with what the community already stands for. Congratulations, your community will decay exponentially with each new user bringing the quality down just a tiny bit until it's gone. The solutions that actually work tend to be UI-oriented. For example, 4chan has an outdated interface not because admins don't know to do modern UI, but rather because outdated UI filters off normies. The biggest challenge is the balance between new users, who tend to bring the quality down, and old users, who are boring and have nothing to say beyond what has already been said.
Rekindle8090 5mo ago
[dead]
cybercatgurrl 5mo ago
precisely. the real problem is capitalism and as long as we live under it there will be financial incentive to exploit any infrastructure we build

tomrod 5mo ago

You can solve a ton of social problems with technical solutions. 100 different, easy to integrate internets federated across a number of different communication technologies and protocols is actually very hard to regulate and capture. Sure, you won't have another Facebook, but we children of the 70s, 80s,and 90s would ser value in that.

han1 5mo ago
[flagged]
- Eji1700 5mo ago
  Because THIS TIME it'll just take the passing of the older generation for all of societies ills to be solved. We either design with human nature in mind or accept that things will degrade.
PaulDavisThe1st 5mo ago
When I was but a youngster, the "internet" part of "internet protocol" was precisely that. When I was a novice programmer, we used to move packets between DECnet, IP and X.500 networks all the time. When I didn't know much about computers, networks were federated by default. The thing is, time went by and we realized that IP was just better than all the others, and everybody started using it for everything. And if you're making the claim that the root of problems like walled gardens and enshittification is the internet protocol ... get outa here.
raincole 5mo ago
What you described is the internet. The 'inter-' prefix means that.

throwaway613746 5mo ago

[dead]

kettlecorn 5mo ago

I have wondered if a pseudo-social / pseudo-technical solution of some sort of trust graph could help. Like you would say who you think is credible and human. An algorithm would evaluate trust on your behalf and it would look to the people you trust, and then who they trust, and so on and assign scores to people. Distrust, or even other observations, could percolate in a similar way. Then on social networks, or some sort of small-web, new users would need to find other people to vouch for them to establish trust. When viewing websites or social media posts the trust score of users could be shown alongside content, and used to filter feeds / visibility. A troll or bot could rather rapidly get picked up by a network of distrust so they could be filtered out quickly. The algorithms and details of such a thing are fuzzy to me, and I think a lot of care and thought would be needed to try to ensure it doesn't collapse under subtle flaws with time.

stackghost 5mo ago
>I have wondered if a pseudo-social / pseudo-technical solution of some sort of trust graph could help. I'm actually building this
- geoah 5mo ago
  been playing around with similar stuff as well just for fun but I'm not happy with any solution so far :( -- if there is anything you can share I'd love to take a peek :)
anal_reactor 5mo ago
This solution has been tried again and again and each time it failed: 1. Most websites that aren't dead had huge influx of new users at some point of their history. Recommendation system cannot handle that - it becomes a bottleneck, and people move to a competitor that doesn't have this problem. 2. Suppose you have a community and you say that each new user needs to be at least 99% compatible with what the community already stands for. Congratulations, your community will decay exponentially with each new user bringing the quality down just a tiny bit until it's gone. The solutions that actually work tend to be UI-oriented. For example, 4chan has an outdated interface not because admins don't know to do modern UI, but rather because outdated UI filters off normies. The biggest challenge is the balance between new users, who tend to bring the quality down, and old users, who are boring and have nothing to say beyond what has already been said.

Rekindle8090 5mo ago

[dead]

cybercatgurrl 5mo ago

precisely. the real problem is capitalism and as long as we live under it there will be financial incentive to exploit any infrastructure we build