4 ms·

I was a fan of his at one point. I did enjoy him talking about the English Civil war and Glorious Revolution, the US War of Independence, etc etc. He introduced

I was a fan of his at one point. I did enjoy him talking about the English Civil war and Glorious Revolution, the US War of Independence, etc etc. He introduced me to the "Whig View of History". And his substack post about the ludicrousness notion that the occupation of the US Capitol my a mob in 2021 was a serious attempt at a revolution/coup was a welcome antidote to the hysteria at the time. But the thing with Yarvin is - he's widely read, but if you dig deeper into any one thing, his reading is shallow. And like most extremists I have read (from communists to anarcho capitalists), he is pretty good at diagnosing problems but awful at proposing solutions.

steve_adams_86 5mo ago
You and I are on different pages. From here in Canada, that occupation of the US Capitol was (and still is) a dark moment in history for me, and a signal of worse things to come. There is no hysteria in my opinion, and the way things have unraveled since is a clear demonstration of why the outcry and outrage was very well-founded. I also don't agree that extremists are particularly good at diagnosing problems. Instead, they tend to be confidently wrong in a way that's exceptionally compelling if you're emotionally vulnerable to their cause. This is why they rarely succeed in creating collective movements that involve broad cooperation and collective structures that can function and endure. They've misdiagnosed the issue, and they typically can't recruit people based on ideological merit, shared purposes, goals with clear outcomes, or other cohesive and productive substrates. They're more like cults and less like cooperative, coherent, purpose-driven organizations. Yarvin and his set fit squarely into this bucket. These people typically talk too much and don't actually do anything. It's because there's nothing _to_ do when your ideology is a nebulous, discordant, illogical, and emotional dump.
- LAC-Tech 5mo ago
  I think you have a monolithic view of the US Right. 2016 Trump Admin is heavily populist, and his administration contains a lot of genuine political outsiders. People are very dis-satisfied, and genuinely excited about these "deplorables" shaking the establishment. 2024 Trump Admin is the establishment. Nearly textbook neocon, it's only innovation is its sophmoric conduct. To paraphrase Nietzsche... "if you drain the swamp too long, does not the swamp drain into you also?". Of course that assumes a draining attempt was made... regardless, it's populated almost entirely by those who were "never trumpers" during the first admin - including the Vice-President. As for the man himself...I do not seem him as a deep or long term thinker. He's cleary attached himself to any vehicle which brings him to power. The idea that he planned and master-minded some "insurrection" in 2021 that was supposed to install him as a dictator, and his current Swamp Creature administration is somehow a continuation of that, just lacks credibility. It was a populist outburst of supporters of the first populist admin.Disillusioned protestors occupying a building is not a viable way to topple regimes (indeed it failed to do so in Hong Kong a few years earlier). These things do not work without institutional and military support, and the left trying to make this out to be a serious threat played a big part in their loss of credibility. A final note - the famous picture of the Jan 6 guy with the painted face and viking horns? He is now staunchly against Trump. Remember Trump is an egotist and an opportunist, not an ideologue. He wouldn't know what to do with a coup if he tripped over it.
  - steve_adams_86 5mo ago
    > These things do not work without institutional and military support, and the left trying to make this out to be a serious threat played a big part in their loss of credibility. I don’t think it was a threat in that sense; I think it speaks volumes about the state of the country, though. I wasn’t making a broad statement about the right at all. I don’t see a monolith in the United States. Perhaps that’s part of the problem, in a sense. There’s so little unity, the only common thread and binding force at the moment seems to be fear and uncertainty. This is perhaps Trump’s greatest strength and opportunity. Without it he would have remained irrelevant in my opinion.
  - lorecore 5mo ago
    > the left trying to make this out to be a serious threat played a big part in their loss of credibility. As a leftist I agree with a lot of what you’re saying, especially the Israeli/neocon influence (to put it mildly). But, you’re making the same mistake many do on the right. Neoliberals are not “the left”. They are right wing with a patina of left wing messaging (at times). They are warmongering Zionists who love insurance companies and mainstream media. The Democrats are a corporate party. You’ll find more allies on the left (like Massie did) if you make that clear distinction. For the record, I never gave a shit about Jan 6th. More people should hold our government accountable like that. Their biggest mistake was not grabbing Pelosi’s hard drive and publishing it as a torrent.
    - LAC-Tech 5mo ago
      Based. I always thought there must have been red-blooded leftists who enjoyed the photos of the politicians cowering on the floor as much as I did. Even if the "wrong people" made them do it.
      - lorecore 5mo ago
        Yes, our government is fully corrupt and Zionist occupied. There is no voting our way out of it, direct action is required. We probably also agree that the "Russian interference" hoax was little more than propaganda runup to their little adventure in the Ukraine. Liberals have an unfathomable obsession with Russia, China and Iran. The latter is lessening though, as even they are tired of doing Israel's dirty work for them. Where we probably disagree, but maybe this conversation will shift your perspective, is on ACAB and the BLM riots. Bombing a police station is equally based to storming the Capitol. I also support direct action against ICE. Imho this government is far beyond redemption and should be dissolved. If anyone is interested in more perspective similar to this, I recommend these two twitter accounts: * https://x.com/SocialistMMA https://x.com/SocialistMMA * https://x.com/BreeNewsome https://x.com/BreeNewsome I have been encouraged by some of the right wing (not Republican) perspective on Gaza. They were disgusted by the genocide and that's something I can align with. My hope that is in the fight against Zionism we can reach a place of racial harmony and understanding. We all have a common enemy. If right wingers can have sympathy for Palestinians and Arabs in general, I have hope that they can recognize that Black Americans and Indigenous Americans were treated the same way. Seeing a genocide live-streamed has flushed out those of us who care and those of us who don't, and it turns out there were some unexpected allies (or potential allies) in places you wouldn't expect them.

steve_adams_86 5mo ago

You and I are on different pages. From here in Canada, that occupation of the US Capitol was (and still is) a dark moment in history for me, and a signal of worse things to come. There is no hysteria in my opinion, and the way things have unraveled since is a clear demonstration of why the outcry and outrage was very well-founded. I also don't agree that extremists are particularly good at diagnosing problems. Instead, they tend to be confidently wrong in a way that's exceptionally compelling if you're emotionally vulnerable to their cause. This is why they rarely succeed in creating collective movements that involve broad cooperation and collective structures that can function and endure. They've misdiagnosed the issue, and they typically can't recruit people based on ideological merit, shared purposes, goals with clear outcomes, or other cohesive and productive substrates. They're more like cults and less like cooperative, coherent, purpose-driven organizations. Yarvin and his set fit squarely into this bucket. These people typically talk too much and don't actually do anything. It's because there's nothing _to_ do when your ideology is a nebulous, discordant, illogical, and emotional dump.

LAC-Tech 5mo ago
I think you have a monolithic view of the US Right. 2016 Trump Admin is heavily populist, and his administration contains a lot of genuine political outsiders. People are very dis-satisfied, and genuinely excited about these "deplorables" shaking the establishment. 2024 Trump Admin is the establishment. Nearly textbook neocon, it's only innovation is its sophmoric conduct. To paraphrase Nietzsche... "if you drain the swamp too long, does not the swamp drain into you also?". Of course that assumes a draining attempt was made... regardless, it's populated almost entirely by those who were "never trumpers" during the first admin - including the Vice-President. As for the man himself...I do not seem him as a deep or long term thinker. He's cleary attached himself to any vehicle which brings him to power. The idea that he planned and master-minded some "insurrection" in 2021 that was supposed to install him as a dictator, and his current Swamp Creature administration is somehow a continuation of that, just lacks credibility. It was a populist outburst of supporters of the first populist admin.Disillusioned protestors occupying a building is not a viable way to topple regimes (indeed it failed to do so in Hong Kong a few years earlier). These things do not work without institutional and military support, and the left trying to make this out to be a serious threat played a big part in their loss of credibility. A final note - the famous picture of the Jan 6 guy with the painted face and viking horns? He is now staunchly against Trump. Remember Trump is an egotist and an opportunist, not an ideologue. He wouldn't know what to do with a coup if he tripped over it.
- steve_adams_86 5mo ago
  > These things do not work without institutional and military support, and the left trying to make this out to be a serious threat played a big part in their loss of credibility. I don’t think it was a threat in that sense; I think it speaks volumes about the state of the country, though. I wasn’t making a broad statement about the right at all. I don’t see a monolith in the United States. Perhaps that’s part of the problem, in a sense. There’s so little unity, the only common thread and binding force at the moment seems to be fear and uncertainty. This is perhaps Trump’s greatest strength and opportunity. Without it he would have remained irrelevant in my opinion.
- lorecore 5mo ago
  > the left trying to make this out to be a serious threat played a big part in their loss of credibility. As a leftist I agree with a lot of what you’re saying, especially the Israeli/neocon influence (to put it mildly). But, you’re making the same mistake many do on the right. Neoliberals are not “the left”. They are right wing with a patina of left wing messaging (at times). They are warmongering Zionists who love insurance companies and mainstream media. The Democrats are a corporate party. You’ll find more allies on the left (like Massie did) if you make that clear distinction. For the record, I never gave a shit about Jan 6th. More people should hold our government accountable like that. Their biggest mistake was not grabbing Pelosi’s hard drive and publishing it as a torrent.
  - LAC-Tech 5mo ago
    Based. I always thought there must have been red-blooded leftists who enjoyed the photos of the politicians cowering on the floor as much as I did. Even if the "wrong people" made them do it.
    - lorecore 5mo ago
      Yes, our government is fully corrupt and Zionist occupied. There is no voting our way out of it, direct action is required. We probably also agree that the "Russian interference" hoax was little more than propaganda runup to their little adventure in the Ukraine. Liberals have an unfathomable obsession with Russia, China and Iran. The latter is lessening though, as even they are tired of doing Israel's dirty work for them. Where we probably disagree, but maybe this conversation will shift your perspective, is on ACAB and the BLM riots. Bombing a police station is equally based to storming the Capitol. I also support direct action against ICE. Imho this government is far beyond redemption and should be dissolved. If anyone is interested in more perspective similar to this, I recommend these two twitter accounts: * https://x.com/SocialistMMA https://x.com/SocialistMMA * https://x.com/BreeNewsome https://x.com/BreeNewsome I have been encouraged by some of the right wing (not Republican) perspective on Gaza. They were disgusted by the genocide and that's something I can align with. My hope that is in the fight against Zionism we can reach a place of racial harmony and understanding. We all have a common enemy. If right wingers can have sympathy for Palestinians and Arabs in general, I have hope that they can recognize that Black Americans and Indigenous Americans were treated the same way. Seeing a genocide live-streamed has flushed out those of us who care and those of us who don't, and it turns out there were some unexpected allies (or potential allies) in places you wouldn't expect them.