4 ms·

I would rather software companies sell at more realistic prices so that they have a sustainable business, and signal to others in the industry that it's still p

I would rather software companies sell at more realistic prices so that they have a sustainable business, and signal to others in the industry that it's still possible to build a sustainable business. No, we should not praise software companies for hobbyist practices like selling $1 app on the App Store, which say, 30% goes to a digital distribution store, and then of your after distribution fees, about 20%+ percent goes to the federal and local government. Pay for updates, and charge rightfully like you're supporting an engineer's salary, and that you have a commercial real estate lease to pay, and the compensation packages of full-time employees with benefits. And boo people who say otherwise. No other professional field do I know of exists where cheap bastards abound while the entire industry is dependent on monopolies to pay the high wages of engineers.

kennywinker 5mo ago
Implying that one of the oldest still actively developed commercial text editors is not doing sustainable business practices kinda misses the mark. They’ve been at this since 1992, 34 years ago. I think they know their business.
- bellowsgulch 5mo ago
  Yeah, I think I know their business, too. Remember 12 years ago when BBEdit left the Mac App Store only later to come back with subscriptions? Boo. [1]: https://x.com/smorr/status/521033038713880576 https://x.com/smorr/status/521033038713880576 [2]: https://www.barebones.com/company/press/bbedit_back_to_mas_pr.html https://www.barebones.com/company/press/bbedit_back_to_mas_p...
  - kstrauser 5mo ago
    Eh. I think that was a fine thing to offer for people who wanted it. You can still buy a perpetual license for the full version from their website.
  - kennywinker 5mo ago
    The app store doesn’t allow for any kind of upgrade pricing, so offering a subscription allows them to operate in the app store sustainably. A shitty compromise, but i don’t blame them for making. 12 years later you can still buy without subscribing - which is what counts for me
kstrauser 5mo ago
No other professional field I know of lets workers invent and alter their own tools, collaboratively, for free, and share them for free with all their colleagues. If surgeons could wiggle their fingers and make a better scalpel, at no cost, and give a copy to all their friends, also at no cost, I bet they'd have some pretty spiffy scalpels going around soon and many docs would stop paying for them.
- doublerabbit 5mo ago
  > No other professional field I know of lets workers invent and alter their own tools, collaboratively, for free, and share them for free with all their colleagues. Blacksmithing, metal working?
  - idle_zealot 5mo ago
    Did I miss blacksmiths gaining the ability to infinitely duplicate and teleport their finished pieces into people's hands? Can one learn this power?
    - exe34 5mo ago
      Teleport? You mean over fiber optics that cost millions to install and maintain?
      - idle_zealot 5mo ago
        Hey, if it only cost millions to install and maintain a leyline network with magic circles capable of transmitting matter for pennies then I would count that as teleportation, yeah.
  - kstrauser 5mo ago
    To a point, although you can't make your own kiln for free. The tools in those trades consume a significant amount of resources, where computing is basically free once you pay for the hardware. Something like GCC is the software equivalent of a steel mill. Even if you could design one and give out the designs for free, you'd still have to pay for the raw materials to construct one.
browningstreet 5mo ago
Customer acquisition and retention is so very hard and expensive. It’s a tough equation.
wlesieutre 5mo ago
Unfortunately Apple doesn’t allow paid updates short of releasing a whole separate app, and you can’t do upgrade discounts for current owners except via weird bundle discounts by sticking the new and old versions together as a package. So Apple is to blame for all the subscriptions.
- reaperducer 5mo ago
  Unfortunately Apple doesn’t allow paid updates short of releasing a whole separate app, and you can’t do upgrade discounts for current owners except via weird bundle discounts by sticking the new and old versions together as a package. So Apple is to blame for all the subscriptions. We're talking about a macOS program, where companies don't have to bother with Apple's rules to sell their software, so your comment is off-topic. Panic is good example of this kind of pricing. Nova is $99 (last I checked), and gets updates for a year. After that, it's $75 for another year of updates. If you don't want to update, you don't have to. You can even update every second or third year or whatever you want and catch up with all the missing features and updates. Let's not just throw up our hands and say, "Oh, well. Apple makes me do this, so there's nothing I can do." Innovate.
  - wlesieutre 5mo ago
    I don’t think subscriptions for every single thing would have taken off the way it did if it hadn’t been for Apple forcing it on mobile where normal people use the most software. I do support software that isn’t subscription as much as I can. Alibre 3D is another good one, though not on Mac yet.
  - ChrisMarshallNY 5mo ago
    BBEdit did release through the Apple Store, for a while, but it didn’t work out. The app is most useful, when you can point it at any file in the system, and sandboxed apps can’t see certain directories. This resulted in an awkward “two-tiered” approach, for a short time, then BareBones just abandoned the App Store.
    - 5mo ago
conductr 5mo ago
BBEdit is a small private company, no VCs. They probably make a ton of cash (by normal standards) for the owners at this point and doing right by their customers and not rocking the boat through profit maximization strategies is a long term play that VCs could not put up with.
- bayindirh 5mo ago
  Plus, BBEdit has a heritage and extremely well rounded and polished codebase. They would not betray their stable business, quality and heritage for some short term gain. They are building a good product for the fun of it and making good money out of it, which they deserve squarely.
alwillis 5mo ago
> No, we should not praise software companies for hobbyist practices like selling $1 app on the App Store, which say, 30% goes to a digital distribution store, and then of your after distribution fees, about 20%+ percent goes to the federal and local government. For hobbyists with revenue less than $1 million per year, the App Store commission is 15%.

kennywinker 5mo ago

Implying that one of the oldest still actively developed commercial text editors is not doing sustainable business practices kinda misses the mark. They’ve been at this since 1992, 34 years ago. I think they know their business.

bellowsgulch 5mo ago
Yeah, I think I know their business, too. Remember 12 years ago when BBEdit left the Mac App Store only later to come back with subscriptions? Boo. [1]: https://x.com/smorr/status/521033038713880576 https://x.com/smorr/status/521033038713880576 [2]: https://www.barebones.com/company/press/bbedit_back_to_mas_pr.html https://www.barebones.com/company/press/bbedit_back_to_mas_p...
- kstrauser 5mo ago
  Eh. I think that was a fine thing to offer for people who wanted it. You can still buy a perpetual license for the full version from their website.
- kennywinker 5mo ago
  The app store doesn’t allow for any kind of upgrade pricing, so offering a subscription allows them to operate in the app store sustainably. A shitty compromise, but i don’t blame them for making. 12 years later you can still buy without subscribing - which is what counts for me

kstrauser 5mo ago

No other professional field I know of lets workers invent and alter their own tools, collaboratively, for free, and share them for free with all their colleagues. If surgeons could wiggle their fingers and make a better scalpel, at no cost, and give a copy to all their friends, also at no cost, I bet they'd have some pretty spiffy scalpels going around soon and many docs would stop paying for them.

doublerabbit 5mo ago
> No other professional field I know of lets workers invent and alter their own tools, collaboratively, for free, and share them for free with all their colleagues. Blacksmithing, metal working?
- idle_zealot 5mo ago
  Did I miss blacksmiths gaining the ability to infinitely duplicate and teleport their finished pieces into people's hands? Can one learn this power?
  - exe34 5mo ago
    Teleport? You mean over fiber optics that cost millions to install and maintain?
    - idle_zealot 5mo ago
      Hey, if it only cost millions to install and maintain a leyline network with magic circles capable of transmitting matter for pennies then I would count that as teleportation, yeah.
- kstrauser 5mo ago
  To a point, although you can't make your own kiln for free. The tools in those trades consume a significant amount of resources, where computing is basically free once you pay for the hardware. Something like GCC is the software equivalent of a steel mill. Even if you could design one and give out the designs for free, you'd still have to pay for the raw materials to construct one.

browningstreet 5mo ago

Customer acquisition and retention is so very hard and expensive. It’s a tough equation.

wlesieutre 5mo ago

Unfortunately Apple doesn’t allow paid updates short of releasing a whole separate app, and you can’t do upgrade discounts for current owners except via weird bundle discounts by sticking the new and old versions together as a package. So Apple is to blame for all the subscriptions.

reaperducer 5mo ago
Unfortunately Apple doesn’t allow paid updates short of releasing a whole separate app, and you can’t do upgrade discounts for current owners except via weird bundle discounts by sticking the new and old versions together as a package. So Apple is to blame for all the subscriptions. We're talking about a macOS program, where companies don't have to bother with Apple's rules to sell their software, so your comment is off-topic. Panic is good example of this kind of pricing. Nova is $99 (last I checked), and gets updates for a year. After that, it's $75 for another year of updates. If you don't want to update, you don't have to. You can even update every second or third year or whatever you want and catch up with all the missing features and updates. Let's not just throw up our hands and say, "Oh, well. Apple makes me do this, so there's nothing I can do." Innovate.
- wlesieutre 5mo ago
  I don’t think subscriptions for every single thing would have taken off the way it did if it hadn’t been for Apple forcing it on mobile where normal people use the most software. I do support software that isn’t subscription as much as I can. Alibre 3D is another good one, though not on Mac yet.
- ChrisMarshallNY 5mo ago
  BBEdit did release through the Apple Store, for a while, but it didn’t work out. The app is most useful, when you can point it at any file in the system, and sandboxed apps can’t see certain directories. This resulted in an awkward “two-tiered” approach, for a short time, then BareBones just abandoned the App Store.
  - 5mo ago

conductr 5mo ago

BBEdit is a small private company, no VCs. They probably make a ton of cash (by normal standards) for the owners at this point and doing right by their customers and not rocking the boat through profit maximization strategies is a long term play that VCs could not put up with.

bayindirh 5mo ago
Plus, BBEdit has a heritage and extremely well rounded and polished codebase. They would not betray their stable business, quality and heritage for some short term gain. They are building a good product for the fun of it and making good money out of it, which they deserve squarely.

alwillis 5mo ago

> No, we should not praise software companies for hobbyist practices like selling $1 app on the App Store, which say, 30% goes to a digital distribution store, and then of your after distribution fees, about 20%+ percent goes to the federal and local government. For hobbyists with revenue less than $1 million per year, the App Store commission is 15%.