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“Regimes in the past have always started with the schools, where they develop a compliant citizenry,” Whitehead continued. “These ‘Student Locator’ programs are

“Regimes in the past have always started with the schools, where they develop a compliant citizenry,” Whitehead continued. “These ‘Student Locator’ programs are ultimately aimed at getting students used to living in a total surveillance state where there will be no privacy, and wherever you go and whatever you text or email will be watched by the government.” This raises a very valid concern. Human beings aren't cattle. Contrary to what many high school administrators might think, teenagers deserve the right to not be treated as such. If children are taught to be complacent with their privacy that can absolutely extend into adulthood. It would be a shame to raise a generation of Americans who support the idea that they are not trustworthy and therefore subject to probationary measures.

fleitz 14y ago
Perhaps it's time the school district brought back the flag salute to better illustrate the relation it wishes to create between citizens and their state.
- grecy 14y ago
  As a foreigner, I was shocked to see kids recite the pledge of allegiance when I first came to America.
  - nateabele 14y ago
    Perhaps, but it's the only remaining societal fixture reminding anybody that the US isn't supposed to be a democracy, even if no one realizes it.
jvdh 14y ago
"Human beings aren't cattle." Approaching an airport security control a while back where security agents where shouting "Remove your shoes, belts and jackets, and move along!" repeatedly gave me the distinct impression that the TSA strongly disagrees with you.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
- Steveism 14y ago
  That's for sure. It's no wonder why they're so hated in society.
  - jamesbritt 14y ago
    Are they? They're certainly hated by various subgroups but I don't think this is terribly wide-spread. I get the feeling more people think the security theater is for real and is stopping actual atacks.
    - maratd 14y ago
      > I get the feeling more people think the security theater is for real and is stopping actual atacks. I haven't spoken to a single person who thinks that's the case.
schnaars 14y ago
This is a great point, but raises issues around the entire US public education system that often times crosses the line of babysitting vs. education (I know nothing about this school). Managing a bunch of 15 - 19 YO's is pretty challenging and as schools continue to get their budget raised or cut, based on attendance, it will be more important to manage attendance vs. GPA / performance. Having kids safely in school, with butt in seat in class, will be continue to be a driving KPI. Human beings aren't cattle, but an education system built around preparing kids for a 9 - 5, factory job, is essentially a cattle farm.
- dmix 14y ago
  > Having kids safely in school, with butt in seat in class, will be continue to be a driving KPI. Source? All of my years in school have taught me that (unwilling) attendance != comprehension of material.
  - kps 14y ago
    Money in the public primary and secondary education system — and in the US that is around half a trillion dollars each year — flows according to body count, not learning. You get what you reward.
- jivatmanx 14y ago
  Why should all of the children who are in school voluntarily have their entire learning experience disrupted by the kid who keeps being forced back into school by a truant officer?
  - MartinCron 14y ago
    I think it 's mostly a question of meaningful consent. Just as a 14 year old cannot consent, legally, to having sex with a 30-year-old, a child cannot really be trusted with the choice to opt out of school.
PakG1 14y ago
“These ‘Student Locator’ programs are ultimately aimed at getting students used to living in a total surveillance state where there will be no privacy, and wherever you go and whatever you text or email will be watched by the government.” Out of curiosity, are you more afraid of the government having that goal and enabling that environment or Facebook/Google/Foursquare/etc? Why? I think this is an interesting discussion.
- afterburner 14y ago
  Facebook can't throw you in jail is one big difference.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
- eCa 14y ago
  You can opt out of Facebook/Google/Foursquare/etc, you can't opt out from your government.
  - sp332 14y ago
    Every time I visit a page with a little FB "Like" button on it, Facebook knows (via a cookie) what page I've visited. They track people even if they don't have accounts. It's not so easy to opt out of that. (I installed ShareMeNot for Firefox but it's not obvious that you can do that.)
    - chopsueyar 14y ago
      Edit your hosts file.
      - sp332 14y ago
        That only works until FB (or Google or whoever) starts using IP addresses in their CDN URLs, or Google hard-codes DNS values for Google analytics servers into Chrome, or whatever. ShareMeNot prevents the browser from even trying to fetch the content.
philwelch 14y ago
Judge Whitehead must have never stepped into an office building in the last 10 years. RFID-enabled ID badges are standard at offices around the world and schools are lagging behind if anything.
- 4ad 14y ago
  Your comment only proves OPs point more clearly. This is normal because we do it.
  - philwelch 14y ago
    My point is that RFID badges did not, in fact, start with the schools. I'm pretty sure that's the exact opposite of OPs point.
  - corin_ 14y ago
    "This is normal because we do it" pretty much is the definition of what normal means. Of course normal doesn't always mean good.
- ScottBurson 14y ago
  Ah, but it's one thing to have it done by an employer with which one has voluntarily entered into an agreement; it's quite another to have it done by the government.
  - warmwaffles 14y ago
    You entered into an agreement with this school district. They are testing this out on these two schools. If it passes, the district may put them in the other schools. She is going to a Magnet school, not a standard public school.
    - lutusp 14y ago
      > You entered into an agreement with this school district. If it's a public school, the agreement cannot include anything that violates a student's civil rights. Under the equal access rules currently in force, the fact that a student chooses to attend a particular school is not a factor -- her civil rights must be protected no matter what choices she makes.
Symmetry 14y ago
You know, my understanding is that when the form of our modern US school system was imported from Prussia many of the people advocating it were praising it's ability to turn out the sort of regimented, disciplined people required to staff factories.
- tjaerv 14y ago
  John Taylor Gatto has written extensively on this in his books "Dumbing Us Down" and "The Underground History of American Education". For a synopsis, see e.g. this transcript of a speech he gave: http://4brevard.com/choice/Public_Education.htm http://4brevard.com/choice/Public_Education.htm

fleitz 14y ago

Perhaps it's time the school district brought back the flag salute to better illustrate the relation it wishes to create between citizens and their state.

grecy 14y ago
As a foreigner, I was shocked to see kids recite the pledge of allegiance when I first came to America.
- nateabele 14y ago
  Perhaps, but it's the only remaining societal fixture reminding anybody that the US isn't supposed to be a democracy, even if no one realizes it.

jvdh 14y ago

"Human beings aren't cattle." Approaching an airport security control a while back where security agents where shouting "Remove your shoes, belts and jackets, and move along!" repeatedly gave me the distinct impression that the TSA strongly disagrees with you.

deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
Steveism 14y ago
That's for sure. It's no wonder why they're so hated in society.
- jamesbritt 14y ago
  Are they? They're certainly hated by various subgroups but I don't think this is terribly wide-spread. I get the feeling more people think the security theater is for real and is stopping actual atacks.
  - maratd 14y ago
    > I get the feeling more people think the security theater is for real and is stopping actual atacks. I haven't spoken to a single person who thinks that's the case.

schnaars 14y ago

This is a great point, but raises issues around the entire US public education system that often times crosses the line of babysitting vs. education (I know nothing about this school). Managing a bunch of 15 - 19 YO's is pretty challenging and as schools continue to get their budget raised or cut, based on attendance, it will be more important to manage attendance vs. GPA / performance. Having kids safely in school, with butt in seat in class, will be continue to be a driving KPI. Human beings aren't cattle, but an education system built around preparing kids for a 9 - 5, factory job, is essentially a cattle farm.

dmix 14y ago
> Having kids safely in school, with butt in seat in class, will be continue to be a driving KPI. Source? All of my years in school have taught me that (unwilling) attendance != comprehension of material.
- kps 14y ago
  Money in the public primary and secondary education system — and in the US that is around half a trillion dollars each year — flows according to body count, not learning. You get what you reward.
jivatmanx 14y ago
Why should all of the children who are in school voluntarily have their entire learning experience disrupted by the kid who keeps being forced back into school by a truant officer?
- MartinCron 14y ago
  I think it 's mostly a question of meaningful consent. Just as a 14 year old cannot consent, legally, to having sex with a 30-year-old, a child cannot really be trusted with the choice to opt out of school.

PakG1 14y ago

“These ‘Student Locator’ programs are ultimately aimed at getting students used to living in a total surveillance state where there will be no privacy, and wherever you go and whatever you text or email will be watched by the government.” Out of curiosity, are you more afraid of the government having that goal and enabling that environment or Facebook/Google/Foursquare/etc? Why? I think this is an interesting discussion.

afterburner 14y ago
Facebook can't throw you in jail is one big difference.
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
eCa 14y ago
You can opt out of Facebook/Google/Foursquare/etc, you can't opt out from your government.
- sp332 14y ago
  Every time I visit a page with a little FB "Like" button on it, Facebook knows (via a cookie) what page I've visited. They track people even if they don't have accounts. It's not so easy to opt out of that. (I installed ShareMeNot for Firefox but it's not obvious that you can do that.)
  - chopsueyar 14y ago
    Edit your hosts file.
    - sp332 14y ago
      That only works until FB (or Google or whoever) starts using IP addresses in their CDN URLs, or Google hard-codes DNS values for Google analytics servers into Chrome, or whatever. ShareMeNot prevents the browser from even trying to fetch the content.

philwelch 14y ago

Judge Whitehead must have never stepped into an office building in the last 10 years. RFID-enabled ID badges are standard at offices around the world and schools are lagging behind if anything.

4ad 14y ago
Your comment only proves OPs point more clearly. This is normal because we do it.
- philwelch 14y ago
  My point is that RFID badges did not, in fact, start with the schools. I'm pretty sure that's the exact opposite of OPs point.
- corin_ 14y ago
  "This is normal because we do it" pretty much is the definition of what normal means. Of course normal doesn't always mean good.
ScottBurson 14y ago
Ah, but it's one thing to have it done by an employer with which one has voluntarily entered into an agreement; it's quite another to have it done by the government.
- warmwaffles 14y ago
  You entered into an agreement with this school district. They are testing this out on these two schools. If it passes, the district may put them in the other schools. She is going to a Magnet school, not a standard public school.
  - lutusp 14y ago
    > You entered into an agreement with this school district. If it's a public school, the agreement cannot include anything that violates a student's civil rights. Under the equal access rules currently in force, the fact that a student chooses to attend a particular school is not a factor -- her civil rights must be protected no matter what choices she makes.

Symmetry 14y ago

You know, my understanding is that when the form of our modern US school system was imported from Prussia many of the people advocating it were praising it's ability to turn out the sort of regimented, disciplined people required to staff factories.

tjaerv 14y ago
John Taylor Gatto has written extensively on this in his books "Dumbing Us Down" and "The Underground History of American Education". For a synopsis, see e.g. this transcript of a speech he gave: http://4brevard.com/choice/Public_Education.htm http://4brevard.com/choice/Public_Education.htm