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Funny, I have exactly the opposite point of view. I hate the red light and speeding cameras because they catch normal people who don’t bother hiding their licen

by qwerpy 5mo ago

Funny, I have exactly the opposite point of view. I hate the red light and speeding cameras because they catch normal people who don’t bother hiding their license plates (or have license plates at all). And I don’t mind Flock and its ilk for catching more serious criminals. Basically I’m optimizing for the 90% case. Law abiding drivers who make the occasional mistake when driving.

Braxton1980 5mo ago
[dead]
water-data-dude 5mo ago
The problem is that a private company holds onto the data forever. Then the government can ask the private company for that data without a warrant. With the number of Flock cameras (I'm upset at how many have popped up near me), it's turning into a record of all of your movements. And that record lasts forever and can be queries at any time. You mentioned "more serious crimes", but what about the case where LEOs in Texas track women who go to get an abortion in another state? Or police officers who stalk their exes? Or an oppressive government that wants to know who went to a protest? Once the tool exists you can't assume it's only going to be used in a way you like.
deleted 5mo ago
[deleted]
jakelazaroff 5mo ago
In the US, there are around 40k deaths from motor vehicle crashes per year [1]. Who do you think is behind the wheel for most of those? The point of these cameras is not to "catch" people speeding or running red lights, but to prevent them from doing it in the first place; the idea is that normal law abiding drivers are more likely to drive carefully if they are likely to be fined for their mistakes. Optimizing for the 90% case would mean supporting their rollout. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_vehicle_fatality_rate_in_U.S._by_year https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_vehicle_fatality_rate_in...
orthoxerox 5mo ago
> I hate the red light and speeding cameras because they catch normal people who don’t bother hiding their license plates (or have license plates at all). The same cameras could also alert the police down the road about a car with unreadable or missing license plates.
worik 5mo ago
If you are driving around without a license plate, you have other (law enforcement) problems In Aotearoa I noticed the same effect in tye early 1990s with "speed cameras", as we called them It took six months, but the change in traffic flows was dramatic, and good.

by qwerpy 5mo ago

Braxton1980 5mo ago

[dead]

water-data-dude 5mo ago

The problem is that a private company holds onto the data forever. Then the government can ask the private company for that data without a warrant. With the number of Flock cameras (I'm upset at how many have popped up near me), it's turning into a record of all of your movements. And that record lasts forever and can be queries at any time. You mentioned "more serious crimes", but what about the case where LEOs in Texas track women who go to get an abortion in another state? Or police officers who stalk their exes? Or an oppressive government that wants to know who went to a protest? Once the tool exists you can't assume it's only going to be used in a way you like.

deleted 5mo ago

[deleted]

jakelazaroff 5mo ago

In the US, there are around 40k deaths from motor vehicle crashes per year [1]. Who do you think is behind the wheel for most of those? The point of these cameras is not to "catch" people speeding or running red lights, but to prevent them from doing it in the first place; the idea is that normal law abiding drivers are more likely to drive carefully if they are likely to be fined for their mistakes. Optimizing for the 90% case would mean supporting their rollout. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_vehicle_fatality_rate_in_U.S._by_year https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_vehicle_fatality_rate_in...

orthoxerox 5mo ago

> I hate the red light and speeding cameras because they catch normal people who don’t bother hiding their license plates (or have license plates at all). The same cameras could also alert the police down the road about a car with unreadable or missing license plates.

worik 5mo ago

If you are driving around without a license plate, you have other (law enforcement) problems In Aotearoa I noticed the same effect in tye early 1990s with "speed cameras", as we called them It took six months, but the change in traffic flows was dramatic, and good.