4 ms·

This is my favorite alternative form of Magic: https://articles.starcitygames.com/articles/the-danger-room/ https://articles.starcitygames.com/articles/the-dan

This is my favorite alternative form of Magic: https://articles.starcitygames.com/articles/the-danger-room/ https://articles.starcitygames.com/articles/the-danger-room/ "I have a feeling that roughly 25% of games are decided by a player drawing too few lands, 25% of games are decided by a player drawing too many lands, 25% of games are decided by a player having a legitimate bomb not get answered immediately, and the last 25% of games are the ones that everybody hopes for where there is a ton of back-and-forth on both sides. I wanted to create a format that eliminated those unpleasant 75% of games that are unfulfilling and foster a format where ALL of the games were as interactive as possible."

belval 4mo ago
Alternatively you give everyone a free mulligan and if they decide to start with <3 lands in their hand or no mana ramp that's on them. My issue with guaranteed lands is that they remove the randomness of some lands. I am not guaranteed to get my "no maximum hand size" land and my rogue passage to make my creature unblockable in a typical game of commander. I have to plan for it by using stuff like expedition map.
- WillAdams 4mo ago
  Only allow certainty for basic lands?
- jwatte 4mo ago
  Drafting last Friday, my first hand was zero lands, my second hand was one land, my third hand (bottoming two) had three lands. However, I then kept drawing four-drop spells and no more lands for 8 turns. So is it "on me?" Or is it just that the game just is high variance?
  - belval 4mo ago
    Free mulligan means on your third hand you would only bottom 1, not 2. Besides, with a 37 lands commander deck, the chances that in 4 hands (if your limit is bottoming 2, 5 cards in hand) starts getting low. Around 1 in 10 and that's ignoring mana rocks (2 lands + 1 mana rock) which probably brings it much closer to 1 in 14+. If you add the chances of more than 4 lands (also fairly undesirable) your odds of a bad forced hand climb to 1 in 7, which is still pretty far from the 50% chance the original post is talking about. Without the free mulligan you would be at 1 in 4, which is why I said free mulligan is the way to go.
lukifer 4mo ago
My biggest beef with Magic isn't the lands system, but that the game is fundamentally stingy with cards, leading to many non-games, and/or turns where you pray for the right top-deck and don't get it. (This is one major reason I play Netrunner instead, where your action economy can be spent on draw. You might have weak turns, but never non-turns.) Given the huge cardpool, there's no real way to "fix" MtG that couldn't be exploited in the metagame (aside from limited, or social formats like Commander). But that aside, I think there are two relatively minor fixes which would go a long way: - You can spend your "land for turn" to exile the land instead, and draw a card. - Before your starting draw, Scry 1.
- mjamesaustin 4mo ago
  [dead]
- the_af 4mo ago
  > (This is one major reason I play Netrunner instead, where your action economy can be spent on draw. You might have weak turns, but never non-turns.) Is Netrunner something you can get into these days, or is it hopelessly OOP? I remember hearing good things about it.
  - vtbassmatt 4mo ago
    There’s a community keeping it alive with fresh content: https://nullsignal.games/ https://nullsignal.games/ I sadly haven’t convinced my MtG playgroup (or family or other friends) to try it with me.
  - lukifer 4mo ago
    It's alive and well, and the community is welcoming and happy to teach: https://nullsignal.games/players/around-the-world/ https://nullsignal.games/players/around-the-world/ Cards release more slowly than the FFG era, but the current stewards (Null Signal) have been doing a great job for the last eight years. There's a community app to play against an AI, which has a good tutorial if you want to dip your toes in: https://chiriboga.sifnt.net.au/ https://chiriboga.sifnt.net.au/
- 4mo ago
drblast 4mo ago
I haven't tried this because I haven't played Magic in over 20 years, but I always thought it would be more fun if you had two draw decks where the second was only allowed to include basic lands. Then in the draw phase you could choose which deck to draw from, eliminating the mana flood/drought possibility that ruins games. Maybe some additional rules to limit how many lands you're allowed to draw in the initial draw to one or two, I dunno.
- Our_Benefactors 4mo ago
  This is similar to how VS system worked, it was a short lived superhero CCG in the mid 2000s, you could play up to one card per turn facedown as a “land”, but you still drew from one deck.
- NeutralCrane 4mo ago
  There’s a few modern TCGs who take this approach, like Riftbound (the League of Legends TCG that launched last year) and Sorcery Contested Realm. Other attempts to fix the mana problem include games like Lorcana and Flesh and Blood, in which cards have dual modes where they can be played or used for resources.
- newobj 4mo ago
  Sorcery TCG
- stevenicr 4mo ago
  I've thought for a long time, two draw piles - one is lands only - and you draw from each of the two piles each turn. this would be balanced for both players. If course with magic the lands pile would have to have rules like no lands that turn into creatures or something.. maybe even just basic lands . but each person gets a land each turn - been thinking that makes the game better.

belval 4mo ago

Alternatively you give everyone a free mulligan and if they decide to start with <3 lands in their hand or no mana ramp that's on them. My issue with guaranteed lands is that they remove the randomness of some lands. I am not guaranteed to get my "no maximum hand size" land and my rogue passage to make my creature unblockable in a typical game of commander. I have to plan for it by using stuff like expedition map.

WillAdams 4mo ago
Only allow certainty for basic lands?
jwatte 4mo ago
Drafting last Friday, my first hand was zero lands, my second hand was one land, my third hand (bottoming two) had three lands. However, I then kept drawing four-drop spells and no more lands for 8 turns. So is it "on me?" Or is it just that the game just is high variance?
- belval 4mo ago
  Free mulligan means on your third hand you would only bottom 1, not 2. Besides, with a 37 lands commander deck, the chances that in 4 hands (if your limit is bottoming 2, 5 cards in hand) starts getting low. Around 1 in 10 and that's ignoring mana rocks (2 lands + 1 mana rock) which probably brings it much closer to 1 in 14+. If you add the chances of more than 4 lands (also fairly undesirable) your odds of a bad forced hand climb to 1 in 7, which is still pretty far from the 50% chance the original post is talking about. Without the free mulligan you would be at 1 in 4, which is why I said free mulligan is the way to go.

lukifer 4mo ago

My biggest beef with Magic isn't the lands system, but that the game is fundamentally stingy with cards, leading to many non-games, and/or turns where you pray for the right top-deck and don't get it. (This is one major reason I play Netrunner instead, where your action economy can be spent on draw. You might have weak turns, but never non-turns.) Given the huge cardpool, there's no real way to "fix" MtG that couldn't be exploited in the metagame (aside from limited, or social formats like Commander). But that aside, I think there are two relatively minor fixes which would go a long way: - You can spend your "land for turn" to exile the land instead, and draw a card. - Before your starting draw, Scry 1.

mjamesaustin 4mo ago
[dead]
the_af 4mo ago
> (This is one major reason I play Netrunner instead, where your action economy can be spent on draw. You might have weak turns, but never non-turns.) Is Netrunner something you can get into these days, or is it hopelessly OOP? I remember hearing good things about it.
- vtbassmatt 4mo ago
  There’s a community keeping it alive with fresh content: https://nullsignal.games/ https://nullsignal.games/ I sadly haven’t convinced my MtG playgroup (or family or other friends) to try it with me.
- lukifer 4mo ago
  It's alive and well, and the community is welcoming and happy to teach: https://nullsignal.games/players/around-the-world/ https://nullsignal.games/players/around-the-world/ Cards release more slowly than the FFG era, but the current stewards (Null Signal) have been doing a great job for the last eight years. There's a community app to play against an AI, which has a good tutorial if you want to dip your toes in: https://chiriboga.sifnt.net.au/ https://chiriboga.sifnt.net.au/
4mo ago

drblast 4mo ago

I haven't tried this because I haven't played Magic in over 20 years, but I always thought it would be more fun if you had two draw decks where the second was only allowed to include basic lands. Then in the draw phase you could choose which deck to draw from, eliminating the mana flood/drought possibility that ruins games. Maybe some additional rules to limit how many lands you're allowed to draw in the initial draw to one or two, I dunno.

Our_Benefactors 4mo ago
This is similar to how VS system worked, it was a short lived superhero CCG in the mid 2000s, you could play up to one card per turn facedown as a “land”, but you still drew from one deck.
NeutralCrane 4mo ago
There’s a few modern TCGs who take this approach, like Riftbound (the League of Legends TCG that launched last year) and Sorcery Contested Realm. Other attempts to fix the mana problem include games like Lorcana and Flesh and Blood, in which cards have dual modes where they can be played or used for resources.
newobj 4mo ago
Sorcery TCG
stevenicr 4mo ago
I've thought for a long time, two draw piles - one is lands only - and you draw from each of the two piles each turn. this would be balanced for both players. If course with magic the lands pile would have to have rules like no lands that turn into creatures or something.. maybe even just basic lands . but each person gets a land each turn - been thinking that makes the game better.