4 ms·

I'm the author of this text. It was originaly writen in a mix of russian and english WITHOUT the AI and then polished and translated by editors. Here is the ori

by zhovner 4mo ago

I'm the author of this text. It was originaly writen in a mix of russian and english WITHOUT the AI and then polished and translated by editors. Here is the original draft https://blog.flipper.net/p/b5b7e9f8-a99f-4393-bf72-23fe5a42e37b/ https://blog.flipper.net/p/b5b7e9f8-a99f-4393-bf72-23fe5a42e...

nekusar 4mo ago
Thanks for posting this. Ive been using translation tools a bunch these last few years. Nobody seemed to have any hate for better accessibility.. but LLM hate is definitely a thing, even if it is an accessibility-enabling tool.
WhitneyLand 4mo ago
It’s a bizarre feeling isn’t it? Sorry you’re having to defend the act of thinking. The problem is you can’t defend it right? Someone could say your evidence came from a prompt: “Take this article and reverse engineer a hypothetical unpolished first draft written in a mix of Russian and English” I’m not sure what the right answer is here. Fwiw I have no doubt you wrote it unassisted.
- skinfaxi 4mo ago
  Chain of trust from RFID chips embedded in their fingertips that authenticated to their keyboard, proving that at least their fingers grazed the keys that formed the message. But what if they're reading off of a pre-written message?
  - freedomben 4mo ago
    And are those RFID chips firmware signed by a big tech overlord that we trust? And with kernel level anti-heat? Cause if not...
    - cryptonym 4mo ago
      Are those RFID chips preventing me (or a physical robot) from typing generated text?
- superxpro12 4mo ago
  Proving a negative is nearly impossible. "Prove you didnt use ai"... its a common argument tactic used all the time.
- jerf 4mo ago
  I've seen many people on reddit use AIs to translate their text. Given that it clearly puts the "default AI voice" on top of their text, it makes me think that it is a fairly inaccurate translation. I suspect something like Google Translate is still better for most people, because it seems to do better at maintaining the voice. Of course in the limit, what I'm calling "voice" simply can't be translated between languages, but you can certainly do much better than slamming "default AI voice" on top of people's writing. I'm sure under the hood Google Translate is a whole bunch of LLMs too now, but special-purpose translation LLMs without the agent refinement can do a lot better. It's unfortunate that people think this is an easy way to translate but the chatbot LLMs, while capable of understanding multiple languages and superficially translating them, probably shouldn't be used for this purpose. It may be possible to prompt the chatbots to also use a certain style in the target language to get it out , but I'm not fluent enough in a second language to know if it worked and I'm yet to see any of the several people I've suggested this to try it, so I'd be interested if anyone knows if this works.
  - trinix912 4mo ago
    In my experience, Google Translate is still so much worse than even free ChatGPT at translating that it is unusable for anything you want to put out and have it seem at least somewhat professional. Especially the voice, ChatGPT seems to infer the formality and overall tone much better than Google Translate. YMMV.
    - jerf 4mo ago
      Bummer. I'm sure someone could build a fantastic translator with our current AI stack but I can't argue with them that the return would not be worth it compared to training another general-purpose AI. But the general-purpose AIs impose way too much of their own voice on the translated results.
handwarmers 4mo ago
Don't be discouraged by the comment section here. HN is a cesspool at this point.
- freedomben 4mo ago
  "cesspool" is pretty overboard. Have you read virtually any other site lately?
  - handwarmers 4mo ago
    It's obviously subjective, but I have a feeling this community has descended into hardcore cynicism and cheap meta analysis of most article I care about. Maybe it's the times we live in. I barely spend much time in the comment sections nowadays - once I stopped visiting this website I started following a bunch of makers on youtube and printables, and got looped into some discord groups and meetups. It was a breath of fresh air - would definitely recommend.
    - majorchord 4mo ago
      Phoronix is so much worse... but in general I think it's mostly a problem with older tech "experts". They have developed a jaded, egotistical world view where only their own opinions can matter, and everyone else is wrong.
      - handwarmers 4mo ago
        I never spent much time there but I have heard people say that. A part of me worries that I might have become the old "get off my lawn" type of person in some ways. I just don't relate to a lot of the upvoted content here, so instead of singing my soul trying to make sense of things, I moved on. Perhaps it's not my place to be any more. These new places I have joined are much easier for me to talk in, and there are no upvotes/downvotes so people tend to be pretty chill and genuine, even if it causes friction sometimes.
      - tekla 4mo ago
qgin 4mo ago
People hunting for AI text is reaching transvestigation levels
- cybercatgurrl 4mo ago
  oh people absolutely get off on this. it’s clear that some people feel a sense of moral superiority from it
- nekzn 4mo ago
  On one hand, you’re right. On the other, it’s normal that humans want to gauge the authenticity of the things they interact with. Some sort of uncanny valley thing.
  - iinnPP 4mo ago
    Normal is humans living in caves.
    - nekzn 4mo ago
      And still, those humans would go outside and check when they heard an odd noise, so they could ascertain if it was a threat or not. This is more of this.
  - z2 4mo ago
    What happens when everyone learns they need to use something like https://tropes.fyi/tropes-md https://tropes.fyi/tropes-md and emerge on the other side of the valley?
    - armchairhacker 4mo ago
      That’s fine. Most of the tropes, and the sameness, are themselves the problem. https://xkcd.com/810/ https://xkcd.com/810/
- fsniper 4mo ago
  I have trouble understanding this. I don't see anyone complaining that we use microwaves and ovens instead of going for lit wood to cook or using search engines instead of crawling through libraries, or using Google Maps instead of using paper maps. These are tools. If output of an LLM conveys the ideas to be told, then what is the problem? Not everyone needs to be magicians with language.
deleted 4mo ago
[deleted]
cobolcomesback 4mo ago
Sorry but I call bullshit. There’s em-dashes all over, even in your original text. Were the editors or translators an AI? Did the editors use AI to “polish” it? The emojis used in the bullet points (which are missing from your original text, but were added in at some point) are also dead giveaways that AI was involved here.
- Sharparam 4mo ago
  The em dash "gotcha" is so fucking tiring at this point. It is perfectly possible, and even easy, to write e[nm] dashes manually. With compose key sequences it's barely more effort than typing a normal dash/hyphen, even. (Just compose key + `-.` for en dash, and `--` for em dash.)
  - ValdikSS 4mo ago
    I can't understand why people defend improper typography. If you're writing a proper, professional-looking blog post, they think you now should use double-minus -- instead of em-dash to make it look non-AI like, only for that reason? In Russia, we have many typography keyboards/addons, because, well, it historically looked very silly to use double-minus or "-quotes instead of «»-quotes. I've no idea how some countries got their typography standardized on the PCs and have it from the very beginning (Germany with their quotes for example), but the other countries need to setup external software and configuration. Apparently, US also didn't got their "third level" keyboard as a standard.
- galleywest200 4mo ago
  I used em-dashes before Gen AI was a thing and I refuse to stop using them. Doing so is admitting the AI companies won. I am not going to change the way I write just to appease some terminally online folks who lack the ability to understand that LLMs learned to write from our writings.
- chupasaurus 4mo ago
  Then eat a pile of different dashes made by the same guy back in 2013 [0]. [0] https://habr.com/ru/articles/191654/ https://habr.com/ru/articles/191654/
deleted 4mo ago
[deleted]

by zhovner 4mo ago

nekusar 4mo ago

Thanks for posting this. Ive been using translation tools a bunch these last few years. Nobody seemed to have any hate for better accessibility.. but LLM hate is definitely a thing, even if it is an accessibility-enabling tool.

WhitneyLand 4mo ago

It’s a bizarre feeling isn’t it? Sorry you’re having to defend the act of thinking. The problem is you can’t defend it right? Someone could say your evidence came from a prompt: “Take this article and reverse engineer a hypothetical unpolished first draft written in a mix of Russian and English” I’m not sure what the right answer is here. Fwiw I have no doubt you wrote it unassisted.

skinfaxi 4mo ago
Chain of trust from RFID chips embedded in their fingertips that authenticated to their keyboard, proving that at least their fingers grazed the keys that formed the message. But what if they're reading off of a pre-written message?
- freedomben 4mo ago
  And are those RFID chips firmware signed by a big tech overlord that we trust? And with kernel level anti-heat? Cause if not...
  - cryptonym 4mo ago
    Are those RFID chips preventing me (or a physical robot) from typing generated text?
superxpro12 4mo ago
Proving a negative is nearly impossible. "Prove you didnt use ai"... its a common argument tactic used all the time.
jerf 4mo ago
I've seen many people on reddit use AIs to translate their text. Given that it clearly puts the "default AI voice" on top of their text, it makes me think that it is a fairly inaccurate translation. I suspect something like Google Translate is still better for most people, because it seems to do better at maintaining the voice. Of course in the limit, what I'm calling "voice" simply can't be translated between languages, but you can certainly do much better than slamming "default AI voice" on top of people's writing. I'm sure under the hood Google Translate is a whole bunch of LLMs too now, but special-purpose translation LLMs without the agent refinement can do a lot better. It's unfortunate that people think this is an easy way to translate but the chatbot LLMs, while capable of understanding multiple languages and superficially translating them, probably shouldn't be used for this purpose. It may be possible to prompt the chatbots to also use a certain style in the target language to get it out , but I'm not fluent enough in a second language to know if it worked and I'm yet to see any of the several people I've suggested this to try it, so I'd be interested if anyone knows if this works.
- trinix912 4mo ago
  In my experience, Google Translate is still so much worse than even free ChatGPT at translating that it is unusable for anything you want to put out and have it seem at least somewhat professional. Especially the voice, ChatGPT seems to infer the formality and overall tone much better than Google Translate. YMMV.
  - jerf 4mo ago
    Bummer. I'm sure someone could build a fantastic translator with our current AI stack but I can't argue with them that the return would not be worth it compared to training another general-purpose AI. But the general-purpose AIs impose way too much of their own voice on the translated results.

handwarmers 4mo ago

Don't be discouraged by the comment section here. HN is a cesspool at this point.

freedomben 4mo ago
"cesspool" is pretty overboard. Have you read virtually any other site lately?
- handwarmers 4mo ago
  It's obviously subjective, but I have a feeling this community has descended into hardcore cynicism and cheap meta analysis of most article I care about. Maybe it's the times we live in. I barely spend much time in the comment sections nowadays - once I stopped visiting this website I started following a bunch of makers on youtube and printables, and got looped into some discord groups and meetups. It was a breath of fresh air - would definitely recommend.
  - majorchord 4mo ago
    Phoronix is so much worse... but in general I think it's mostly a problem with older tech "experts". They have developed a jaded, egotistical world view where only their own opinions can matter, and everyone else is wrong.
    - handwarmers 4mo ago
      I never spent much time there but I have heard people say that. A part of me worries that I might have become the old "get off my lawn" type of person in some ways. I just don't relate to a lot of the upvoted content here, so instead of singing my soul trying to make sense of things, I moved on. Perhaps it's not my place to be any more. These new places I have joined are much easier for me to talk in, and there are no upvotes/downvotes so people tend to be pretty chill and genuine, even if it causes friction sometimes.
    - tekla 4mo ago

qgin 4mo ago

People hunting for AI text is reaching transvestigation levels

cybercatgurrl 4mo ago
oh people absolutely get off on this. it’s clear that some people feel a sense of moral superiority from it
nekzn 4mo ago
On one hand, you’re right. On the other, it’s normal that humans want to gauge the authenticity of the things they interact with. Some sort of uncanny valley thing.
- iinnPP 4mo ago
  Normal is humans living in caves.
  - nekzn 4mo ago
    And still, those humans would go outside and check when they heard an odd noise, so they could ascertain if it was a threat or not. This is more of this.
- z2 4mo ago
  What happens when everyone learns they need to use something like https://tropes.fyi/tropes-md https://tropes.fyi/tropes-md and emerge on the other side of the valley?
  - armchairhacker 4mo ago
    That’s fine. Most of the tropes, and the sameness, are themselves the problem. https://xkcd.com/810/ https://xkcd.com/810/
fsniper 4mo ago
I have trouble understanding this. I don't see anyone complaining that we use microwaves and ovens instead of going for lit wood to cook or using search engines instead of crawling through libraries, or using Google Maps instead of using paper maps. These are tools. If output of an LLM conveys the ideas to be told, then what is the problem? Not everyone needs to be magicians with language.

deleted 4mo ago

[deleted]

cobolcomesback 4mo ago

Sorry but I call bullshit. There’s em-dashes all over, even in your original text. Were the editors or translators an AI? Did the editors use AI to “polish” it? The emojis used in the bullet points (which are missing from your original text, but were added in at some point) are also dead giveaways that AI was involved here.

Sharparam 4mo ago
The em dash "gotcha" is so fucking tiring at this point. It is perfectly possible, and even easy, to write e[nm] dashes manually. With compose key sequences it's barely more effort than typing a normal dash/hyphen, even. (Just compose key + `-.` for en dash, and `--` for em dash.)
- ValdikSS 4mo ago
  I can't understand why people defend improper typography. If you're writing a proper, professional-looking blog post, they think you now should use double-minus -- instead of em-dash to make it look non-AI like, only for that reason? In Russia, we have many typography keyboards/addons, because, well, it historically looked very silly to use double-minus or "-quotes instead of «»-quotes. I've no idea how some countries got their typography standardized on the PCs and have it from the very beginning (Germany with their quotes for example), but the other countries need to setup external software and configuration. Apparently, US also didn't got their "third level" keyboard as a standard.
galleywest200 4mo ago
I used em-dashes before Gen AI was a thing and I refuse to stop using them. Doing so is admitting the AI companies won. I am not going to change the way I write just to appease some terminally online folks who lack the ability to understand that LLMs learned to write from our writings.
chupasaurus 4mo ago
Then eat a pile of different dashes made by the same guy back in 2013 [0]. [0] https://habr.com/ru/articles/191654/ https://habr.com/ru/articles/191654/

deleted 4mo ago

[deleted]