4 ms·

I'd like to try Vivaldi, but the combination of being (partially) closed-source [1] and free-as-in-beer makes me feel like I must be the product. Do they do an

I'd like to try Vivaldi, but the combination of being (partially) closed-source [1] and free-as-in-beer makes me feel like I must be the product. Do they do any sort of third-party auditing of the closed parts? [1] https://vivaldi.com/blog/technology/why-isnt-vivaldi-browser-open-source/ https://vivaldi.com/blog/technology/why-isnt-vivaldi-browser...

dgellow 5mo ago
Im not sure I understand their business model. I don’t see any paid offering on their website
- zamadatix 5mo ago
  Search engine deals are HUGE for browsers. They're e.g. what has funded Mozilla with many billions over the last 20 years. Mozilla has tried to diversify but everything else has pales in comparison (and the donations are basically a joke). It scales up with usage as well. Not that Safari needed funding, but Google pays Apple upwards of $20,000,000,000 per year for the privilege of being the default for that user base.
  - phs318u 5mo ago
    A lot of people might think $20B is a lot to pay. But search (and “other”) account for over half (>$200B) the of Alphabet’s total revenue from all sources. It’s still a bargain when you consider how few people bother to (or are even aware of the possibility of) changing their default browser. https://stockanalysis.com/stocks/googl/metrics/revenue-by-segment/ https://stockanalysis.com/stocks/googl/metrics/revenue-by-se...
- newscombinatorY 5mo ago
  Took 2 seconds to startpage* this: https://vivaldi.com/blog/vivaldi-business-model/ https://vivaldi.com/blog/vivaldi-business-model/ *screw Google and their AI search
  - dgellow 5mo ago
    Guess I’m blind, I somehow missed it… thanks! So the answer seems to be: - search partnerships - direct match partnerships - bookmarks partnerships - donation - cut when people sign up for advertised products (proton vpn, not sure if others) Or at least that was the case in 2019
- deleted 5mo ago
  [deleted]
dijksterhuis 5mo ago
source code is apparently* available to audit: https://vivaldi.com/source https://vivaldi.com/source * on my phone, can’t inspect the tars
- brnt 5mo ago
  Tarballs every 2 months, and we know these don't give you the Vivaldi browser as they supply it. I don't trust them one bit. There was that telemetry analysis that showed Vivaldi as a very noisy browser.
  - dijksterhuis 5mo ago
    > we know these don't give you the Vivaldi browser as they supply it. how so? how do you know this?
    - ekianjo 5mo ago
      Probably because they update the browser way more often than that
      - dijksterhuis 5mo ago
        so it’s not a perfect solution :shrugs: i’ll take imperfect over nothing
    - brnt 5mo ago
      Because they are open about including closed parts. Its not a FLOSS browser.
    - pamcake 5mo ago
      You can test this locally yourself with mitmproxy, opensnitch, or whatever. You can try building the (supposedly) open-source apps you use from source. Everyone opining here should MitM themselves every now and then. If not for your own security then maybe to make sure you're not participating in psyop when opining online and resharing hearsay or old truisms.

dgellow 5mo ago

Im not sure I understand their business model. I don’t see any paid offering on their website

zamadatix 5mo ago
Search engine deals are HUGE for browsers. They're e.g. what has funded Mozilla with many billions over the last 20 years. Mozilla has tried to diversify but everything else has pales in comparison (and the donations are basically a joke). It scales up with usage as well. Not that Safari needed funding, but Google pays Apple upwards of $20,000,000,000 per year for the privilege of being the default for that user base.
- phs318u 5mo ago
  A lot of people might think $20B is a lot to pay. But search (and “other”) account for over half (>$200B) the of Alphabet’s total revenue from all sources. It’s still a bargain when you consider how few people bother to (or are even aware of the possibility of) changing their default browser. https://stockanalysis.com/stocks/googl/metrics/revenue-by-segment/ https://stockanalysis.com/stocks/googl/metrics/revenue-by-se...
newscombinatorY 5mo ago
Took 2 seconds to startpage* this: https://vivaldi.com/blog/vivaldi-business-model/ https://vivaldi.com/blog/vivaldi-business-model/ *screw Google and their AI search
- dgellow 5mo ago
  Guess I’m blind, I somehow missed it… thanks! So the answer seems to be: - search partnerships - direct match partnerships - bookmarks partnerships - donation - cut when people sign up for advertised products (proton vpn, not sure if others) Or at least that was the case in 2019
deleted 5mo ago
[deleted]

dijksterhuis 5mo ago

source code is apparently* available to audit: https://vivaldi.com/source https://vivaldi.com/source * on my phone, can’t inspect the tars

brnt 5mo ago
Tarballs every 2 months, and we know these don't give you the Vivaldi browser as they supply it. I don't trust them one bit. There was that telemetry analysis that showed Vivaldi as a very noisy browser.
- dijksterhuis 5mo ago
  > we know these don't give you the Vivaldi browser as they supply it. how so? how do you know this?
  - ekianjo 5mo ago
    Probably because they update the browser way more often than that
    - dijksterhuis 5mo ago
      so it’s not a perfect solution :shrugs: i’ll take imperfect over nothing
  - brnt 5mo ago
    Because they are open about including closed parts. Its not a FLOSS browser.
  - pamcake 5mo ago
    You can test this locally yourself with mitmproxy, opensnitch, or whatever. You can try building the (supposedly) open-source apps you use from source. Everyone opining here should MitM themselves every now and then. If not for your own security then maybe to make sure you're not participating in psyop when opining online and resharing hearsay or old truisms.