6 ms·

It looks pretty shonky. I dont care about the casting. But the costumes look like ass (One of the extras was saying he had fit into the same armor for a low b

It looks pretty shonky. I dont care about the casting. But the costumes look like ass (One of the extras was saying he had fit into the same armor for a low budget sword and sandal film), they are using a viking longboat as a greek ship (have already seen half a dozen experts spitting chips over the difference in boat design). I just cant bring myself to care about the film. "Oh its a fantasy film" its set in a historical time period, I wouldnt watch a WW2 Zombie movie if the nazi zombies were wearing viking armor driving an Abrams tank either.

klausa 5mo ago
> "Oh its a fantasy film" its set in a historical time period, I wouldnt watch a WW2 Zombie movie if the nazi zombies were wearing viking armor driving an Abrams tank either. WW2 Zombie movie with Nazis in Viking armors and random tanks sounds so much more _fun_ than a "historically acurate Nazi Zombie" movie!
- zamadatix 5mo ago
  Different strokes for different folks. I think they are just used to the common trope of people immediately telling them because one aspect of a movie/film/play is unrealistic they shouldn't care if the entire thing is nonsense. Vice versa though, nobody should mind others enjoy or make such content, beyond these kinds of statements that it's not for them. I also more often enjoy films which sit between "100% realistic/accurate" and "anything goes" than either extreme itself. 100% realistic/accurate and it tends to already be known unless it's relatively bland. 100% anything goes and it can still be good but there is a high risk it ends up feeling like every other "anything goes" movie of the same topic. In between you can often get the best of both worlds - something new, but still unique.
  - protocolture 5mo ago
    >I also more often enjoy films which sit between "100% realistic/accurate" and "anything goes" than either extreme itself. 100% realistic/accurate and it tends to already be known unless it's relatively bland. 100% anything goes and it can still be good but there is a high risk it ends up feeling like every other "anything goes" movie of the same topic. In between you can often get the best of both worlds - something new, but still unique. I think that Nolan sells himself (The online worship can hardly all be organic) as an authentic, technical director interested in accurate physical props. When mostly what he does is potter about and destroy sound design. I agree no one is going to be 100% accurate and accuracy isnt always desirable. But an attempt? When thats the guys reputation? Doesnt feel like too much to ask for.
    - klausa 5mo ago
      >I think that Nolan sells himself (The online worship can hardly all be organic) as an authentic, technical director interested in accurate physical props. I'm not a huge Nolan-discourse-insider, but that seems like a pretty bizarre reputation to have for someone who's famous for directing three Batman movies, Inception, Interstellar and Tenet? Is this reputation just because of Oppenheimer? I haven't seen Dunkirk (and I'm not a WWII buff so couldn't tell if they used right planes/boats/guns/uniforms/whatever even if I tried), but even a short blurb on Wikipedia talks about a "balance historical accuracy with aesthetics that would favour the film stock".
      - SvenL 5mo ago
        Well, interstellar has also some nerd stuff in it. If I remember correctly Kip Thorne did physics consulting on the movie and they even use a simulation running on a cluster to visualize the black hole physically correct. They could have used some arbitrary CGI…but no, they wanted it accurate according to science. https://arxiv.org/abs/1502.03808 https://arxiv.org/abs/1502.03808
        aragilar 5mo ago
        And yet the rest of the movie runs on movie logic, enough so that every physicist I know rolls their eyes at it. It gives me the vibe of the "IFLS" crowd, not anyone who actually understands science.
        protocolture 5mo ago
        Yeah its a bugbear of mine "oh its so accurate" theres like 2 accurate scenes, and most of it (from economics/agriculture to space physics) is completely bonkers. Sadly its a lot of "Filmbros first serious scifi movie" and thats something you cant disentangle, its love its not rational.
        klausa 5mo ago
        Maybe we run in different circles, but I feel like “appreciates scientific accuracy” and “appreciates historical accuracy” are pretty disjoint sets? Not entirely without overlap, but pretty distinct.
- vidarh 5mo ago
  The example was really to me because one of the better Nazi zombie movies is Norwegian (Dead Snow) and given the Nazi obsession with old Germanic and Norse myths, it wouldn't seem wrong at all to come across Nazi Vikings in a movie like that.
RobotToaster 5mo ago
The costumes are completely wrong. At least they bothered to CGI out the stirrups, but it's incredibly obvious from how he's sitting on the horse in the trailer.
- protocolture 5mo ago
  I had forgotten about the stirrup controversy.
  - fecal_henge 5mo ago
    Nothing like historical inaccuracy to stirrup some controversy.
- Ladioss 5mo ago
  I would do unfathomable things for a movie with period-accurate Bronze Age armor sets.
  - protocolture 5mo ago
    Yeah same. I would book a full row to myself.
xdennis 5mo ago
[flagged]
- protocolture 5mo ago
  No I legitimately don't care about those things. They could cast the smurfs if they had a cool period boat and nice period armor. You are the one who has some weird race based conditioning where you are hyper-vigilant where it comes to race and need to act offended about it. Seek medical assistance.
  - modo_mario 5mo ago
    To be fair it is fairly onesided towards european history/folklore/tales and noticably always with black people inserted making it feel like there's some very... american focus on this from the opposing perspective as well. (And when it's anything east asian they typically insert a white main character) Which isn't helped by the industry basically farming this situation from both sides with actors and articles claiming queen charlotte, cleopatra and such were back. (to the point of leading to legal complaints in egypt, etc)
  - verisimi 5mo ago
    You care about the historical detail of the boats and armour, but don't care about the person (sex or colour)? And people who disagree with you need medical help? Do you realise all the contradictions in your position? And then to suggest that the other person needs medical help for stating the obvious, indicates your malign intent. This is gas lighting, ie abusive behaviour. Your own conditioning is making you unable to see the obvious.
    - bazoom42 5mo ago
      If you genuinely believe every actor should be Greek or Anatolian, that would be a fair and consistent position.
    - protocolture 5mo ago
      >Do you realise all the contradictions in your position? And then to suggest that the other person needs medical help for stating the obvious, indicates your malign intent. This is gas lighting, ie abusive behaviour. Your own conditioning is making you unable to see the obvious. Its not gas lighting and you diminish the term by suggesting it is. If you demand arbitrary whiteness for a film thats about people who were considered black until the 60s or so, when you arent also demanding greekness of the whites, you are just here to grind your culture war axe. I was accused of being conditioned, all I did was point out that its the culture war practitioners who have been conditioned like pavlovs dog to bark every time they see a person of colour on film. And yeah, that requires medical attention.
jimnotgym 5mo ago
Would you choose the weapons, armour and tactics as described in the Iliad? Even though it is thought they are inaccurate for the time period that they think the Iliad is set? Not so easy I would say. And the extra you describe, where does he appear on screen? Front and centre, or in the fourth rank behind the people in better costumes? And the longboat, does it appear on screen in its original form, or with additions to make it look more period accurate?
- bee_rider 5mo ago
  > Would you choose the weapons, armour and tactics as described in the Iliad? Even though it is thought they are inaccurate for the time period that they think the Iliad is set? Not so easy I would say. Either “best attempt at historical accuracy” (although that would have been difficult given the sparse record), or “true to Homer’s anachronistic story” would have been reasonable ways to go. Sounds like they picked neither, though…
- protocolture 5mo ago
  >Would you choose the weapons, armour and tactics as described in the Iliad? Thats fine but my ultimate preference would be fully period. Theres an old painting of jesus getting stabbed by Longinus kicking around, and Longinus and the other romans are wearing modern (at the time of painting) Italian plate harness with sallet helms. The reason we dont depict romans like this painting, or wearing modern army fatigues and carrying rifles, is that we know better. >And the extra you describe, where does he appear on screen? Front and centre, or in the fourth rank behind the people in better costumes? The gist here is that most of the costumes are rentals with a few exceptions. The extra himself is barely on screen, but he is one of apparently a large number of people in the same outfit. YMMV. The costumes they have created for the film are no better in accuracy, the batmanesque helmet for Agamemnon has been thoroughly ridiculed online and I wont bother going over it again here. >And the longboat, does it appear on screen in its original form, or with additions to make it look more period accurate? They took the dragon head prow down at least. Not much more than that has been done.
kakacik 5mo ago
This is fairly typical level of detail for Hollywood, most of stuff they do around Europe is insulting as hell if one cares about the topic, historical stuff being the most visible source of offense. Dumbed down far more than required for short movie transition of any topic. But I guess they know their US audience, their level of knowledge and care for authenticity better than me.
cess11 5mo ago
"I wouldnt watch a WW2 Zombie movie if the nazi zombies were wearing viking armor driving an Abrams tank either." OK, so you didn't watch Kung Fury? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kung_Fury https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kung_Fury
ourmandave 5mo ago
Would you watch a 1965 WW2 "historical" movie if the Nazis were driving M47 Patton tanks? https://www.warhistoryonline.com/world-war-ii/the-battle-of-the-bulge-was-so-historically-inaccurate-that-president-eisenhower-came-out-of-retirement-held-a-press-conference-just-to-denounce-the-film.html https://www.warhistoryonline.com/world-war-ii/the-battle-of-...
- protocolture 5mo ago
  I get pretty cranky at WW2 films that dress up modern tanks as WW2 ones. Particularly the tiger in Kellys Heroes that is definitely not a Tiger. Also A Bridge too Far had this issue too.
joshuahedlund 5mo ago
For someone who purports not to care about the film, you seem very familiar with the discourse about it. (I have seen zero experts, or anyone really, discussing boat design.)
- zulux 5mo ago
  Stop noticing, eh?
- protocolture 5mo ago
  I said I dont care about the casting. Not the other discourse.

klausa 5mo ago

> "Oh its a fantasy film" its set in a historical time period, I wouldnt watch a WW2 Zombie movie if the nazi zombies were wearing viking armor driving an Abrams tank either. WW2 Zombie movie with Nazis in Viking armors and random tanks sounds so much more _fun_ than a "historically acurate Nazi Zombie" movie!

zamadatix 5mo ago
Different strokes for different folks. I think they are just used to the common trope of people immediately telling them because one aspect of a movie/film/play is unrealistic they shouldn't care if the entire thing is nonsense. Vice versa though, nobody should mind others enjoy or make such content, beyond these kinds of statements that it's not for them. I also more often enjoy films which sit between "100% realistic/accurate" and "anything goes" than either extreme itself. 100% realistic/accurate and it tends to already be known unless it's relatively bland. 100% anything goes and it can still be good but there is a high risk it ends up feeling like every other "anything goes" movie of the same topic. In between you can often get the best of both worlds - something new, but still unique.
- protocolture 5mo ago
  >I also more often enjoy films which sit between "100% realistic/accurate" and "anything goes" than either extreme itself. 100% realistic/accurate and it tends to already be known unless it's relatively bland. 100% anything goes and it can still be good but there is a high risk it ends up feeling like every other "anything goes" movie of the same topic. In between you can often get the best of both worlds - something new, but still unique. I think that Nolan sells himself (The online worship can hardly all be organic) as an authentic, technical director interested in accurate physical props. When mostly what he does is potter about and destroy sound design. I agree no one is going to be 100% accurate and accuracy isnt always desirable. But an attempt? When thats the guys reputation? Doesnt feel like too much to ask for.
  - klausa 5mo ago
    >I think that Nolan sells himself (The online worship can hardly all be organic) as an authentic, technical director interested in accurate physical props. I'm not a huge Nolan-discourse-insider, but that seems like a pretty bizarre reputation to have for someone who's famous for directing three Batman movies, Inception, Interstellar and Tenet? Is this reputation just because of Oppenheimer? I haven't seen Dunkirk (and I'm not a WWII buff so couldn't tell if they used right planes/boats/guns/uniforms/whatever even if I tried), but even a short blurb on Wikipedia talks about a "balance historical accuracy with aesthetics that would favour the film stock".
    - SvenL 5mo ago
      Well, interstellar has also some nerd stuff in it. If I remember correctly Kip Thorne did physics consulting on the movie and they even use a simulation running on a cluster to visualize the black hole physically correct. They could have used some arbitrary CGI…but no, they wanted it accurate according to science. https://arxiv.org/abs/1502.03808 https://arxiv.org/abs/1502.03808
      - aragilar 5mo ago
        And yet the rest of the movie runs on movie logic, enough so that every physicist I know rolls their eyes at it. It gives me the vibe of the "IFLS" crowd, not anyone who actually understands science.
        protocolture 5mo ago
        Yeah its a bugbear of mine "oh its so accurate" theres like 2 accurate scenes, and most of it (from economics/agriculture to space physics) is completely bonkers. Sadly its a lot of "Filmbros first serious scifi movie" and thats something you cant disentangle, its love its not rational.
      - klausa 5mo ago
        Maybe we run in different circles, but I feel like “appreciates scientific accuracy” and “appreciates historical accuracy” are pretty disjoint sets? Not entirely without overlap, but pretty distinct.
vidarh 5mo ago
The example was really to me because one of the better Nazi zombie movies is Norwegian (Dead Snow) and given the Nazi obsession with old Germanic and Norse myths, it wouldn't seem wrong at all to come across Nazi Vikings in a movie like that.

RobotToaster 5mo ago

The costumes are completely wrong. At least they bothered to CGI out the stirrups, but it's incredibly obvious from how he's sitting on the horse in the trailer.

protocolture 5mo ago
I had forgotten about the stirrup controversy.
- fecal_henge 5mo ago
  Nothing like historical inaccuracy to stirrup some controversy.
Ladioss 5mo ago
I would do unfathomable things for a movie with period-accurate Bronze Age armor sets.
- protocolture 5mo ago
  Yeah same. I would book a full row to myself.

xdennis 5mo ago

[flagged]

protocolture 5mo ago
No I legitimately don't care about those things. They could cast the smurfs if they had a cool period boat and nice period armor. You are the one who has some weird race based conditioning where you are hyper-vigilant where it comes to race and need to act offended about it. Seek medical assistance.
- modo_mario 5mo ago
  To be fair it is fairly onesided towards european history/folklore/tales and noticably always with black people inserted making it feel like there's some very... american focus on this from the opposing perspective as well. (And when it's anything east asian they typically insert a white main character) Which isn't helped by the industry basically farming this situation from both sides with actors and articles claiming queen charlotte, cleopatra and such were back. (to the point of leading to legal complaints in egypt, etc)
- verisimi 5mo ago
  You care about the historical detail of the boats and armour, but don't care about the person (sex or colour)? And people who disagree with you need medical help? Do you realise all the contradictions in your position? And then to suggest that the other person needs medical help for stating the obvious, indicates your malign intent. This is gas lighting, ie abusive behaviour. Your own conditioning is making you unable to see the obvious.
  - bazoom42 5mo ago
    If you genuinely believe every actor should be Greek or Anatolian, that would be a fair and consistent position.
  - protocolture 5mo ago
    >Do you realise all the contradictions in your position? And then to suggest that the other person needs medical help for stating the obvious, indicates your malign intent. This is gas lighting, ie abusive behaviour. Your own conditioning is making you unable to see the obvious. Its not gas lighting and you diminish the term by suggesting it is. If you demand arbitrary whiteness for a film thats about people who were considered black until the 60s or so, when you arent also demanding greekness of the whites, you are just here to grind your culture war axe. I was accused of being conditioned, all I did was point out that its the culture war practitioners who have been conditioned like pavlovs dog to bark every time they see a person of colour on film. And yeah, that requires medical attention.

jimnotgym 5mo ago

Would you choose the weapons, armour and tactics as described in the Iliad? Even though it is thought they are inaccurate for the time period that they think the Iliad is set? Not so easy I would say. And the extra you describe, where does he appear on screen? Front and centre, or in the fourth rank behind the people in better costumes? And the longboat, does it appear on screen in its original form, or with additions to make it look more period accurate?

bee_rider 5mo ago
> Would you choose the weapons, armour and tactics as described in the Iliad? Even though it is thought they are inaccurate for the time period that they think the Iliad is set? Not so easy I would say. Either “best attempt at historical accuracy” (although that would have been difficult given the sparse record), or “true to Homer’s anachronistic story” would have been reasonable ways to go. Sounds like they picked neither, though…
protocolture 5mo ago
>Would you choose the weapons, armour and tactics as described in the Iliad? Thats fine but my ultimate preference would be fully period. Theres an old painting of jesus getting stabbed by Longinus kicking around, and Longinus and the other romans are wearing modern (at the time of painting) Italian plate harness with sallet helms. The reason we dont depict romans like this painting, or wearing modern army fatigues and carrying rifles, is that we know better. >And the extra you describe, where does he appear on screen? Front and centre, or in the fourth rank behind the people in better costumes? The gist here is that most of the costumes are rentals with a few exceptions. The extra himself is barely on screen, but he is one of apparently a large number of people in the same outfit. YMMV. The costumes they have created for the film are no better in accuracy, the batmanesque helmet for Agamemnon has been thoroughly ridiculed online and I wont bother going over it again here. >And the longboat, does it appear on screen in its original form, or with additions to make it look more period accurate? They took the dragon head prow down at least. Not much more than that has been done.

kakacik 5mo ago

This is fairly typical level of detail for Hollywood, most of stuff they do around Europe is insulting as hell if one cares about the topic, historical stuff being the most visible source of offense. Dumbed down far more than required for short movie transition of any topic. But I guess they know their US audience, their level of knowledge and care for authenticity better than me.

cess11 5mo ago

"I wouldnt watch a WW2 Zombie movie if the nazi zombies were wearing viking armor driving an Abrams tank either." OK, so you didn't watch Kung Fury? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kung_Fury https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kung_Fury

ourmandave 5mo ago

Would you watch a 1965 WW2 "historical" movie if the Nazis were driving M47 Patton tanks? https://www.warhistoryonline.com/world-war-ii/the-battle-of-the-bulge-was-so-historically-inaccurate-that-president-eisenhower-came-out-of-retirement-held-a-press-conference-just-to-denounce-the-film.html https://www.warhistoryonline.com/world-war-ii/the-battle-of-...

protocolture 5mo ago
I get pretty cranky at WW2 films that dress up modern tanks as WW2 ones. Particularly the tiger in Kellys Heroes that is definitely not a Tiger. Also A Bridge too Far had this issue too.

joshuahedlund 5mo ago

For someone who purports not to care about the film, you seem very familiar with the discourse about it. (I have seen zero experts, or anyone really, discussing boat design.)

zulux 5mo ago
Stop noticing, eh?
protocolture 5mo ago
I said I dont care about the casting. Not the other discourse.