3 ms·

When a non-trans person stars in a film, nobody calls it a 'straight-cis' ideological hit piece.

by vkou 5mo ago

defrost 5mo ago
It's literally just manufactured faux-concern about a rumour and a very very minor character role: Achilles does not actually appear as a living character in Homer's epic poem The Odyssey (as he dies in the Trojan War before Odysseus' journey home). However, in Christopher Nolan’s upcoming film adaptation, the character is rumored to make a brief appearance as a ghost in the Underworld. Viral rumors suggested Elliot Page was cast in this role. Nolan movies will continue to fail or succeed, it's a stretch for the GP commentor to tie that to a person cast for a bit part.
- MaxHoppersGhost 5mo ago
  Yeah he doesn’t appear as a living character in Homer’s poem but he does appear as a ghost in the poem when they visit the underworld (sorry for the spoilers). Not sure what difference it makes if Achilles shows up as alive or as a ghost but he is in the poem and it would be weird to have a non macho dude play Achilles. Regardless I think it’s a bullshit rumor and people are running with it. The sad thing is how believable the rumor is.
  - defrost 5mo ago
    > it would be weird to have a non macho dude play Achilles. Odd. Remind me, wasn't it Achilles who spent a couple of years cross dressing as a girl while hiding out to avoid a fight? - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Achilles_on_Skyros https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Achilles_on_Skyros Buenos noches Senores y Senoras Bienvenidos La primera pregunta es: Que es mas macho, pineapple o knife? Well, let's see My guess is that a pineapple is more macho than a knife Si! Correcto! Pineapple es mas macho que knife La segunda pregunta es: Que es mas macho, lightbulb o schoolbus? Uh, lightbulb? No! Lo siento, Schoolbus es mas macho que lightbulb Gracias. And we'll be back in un momento ~ https://youtu.be/AY3OgLo8DUc?t=14 https://youtu.be/AY3OgLo8DUc?t=14
    - dyauspitr 5mo ago
      I hate these gotchas but I can’t resist and it’s on a flagged comment so no one is really going to see this. Are you saying trans people are just cross-dressers?
      - tsimionescu 5mo ago
        No, it just suggests that to call Achilles "macho" is extremely weird. And the GP didn't even mention his extreme emotionality at the death of his lover, Patrocles, which is like half his plot in the Illiad.
        MaxHoppersGhost 5mo ago
        They were not lovers, that is modern BS painted over myth.
        defrost 5mo ago
        Modern BS based on Classical era BS ? It's not some new DEI post-WWII crazy. ... frequently interpreted and depicted as lovers in the classical period of Greek literature, particularly in the works of Aeschylus, Aeschines and Plato. Other writers at the time, such as Xenophon in his Symposium, say that their relationship was not sexual, but instead an intense friendship. Ancient writers referenced both sides, and additionally debated whether and how the relationship fit into the scheme of pederasty in ancient Greece. ~ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Achilles_and_Patroclus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Achilles_and_Patroclus I'm pushing 70, don't much care one way or the other, but can state it's been cast as a very probably just another example of Greek lovers since I was in school .. and, as linked above, thought to be as such since the Classic Era writers. You're certainly entitled to the opinion that pederasty wasn't a thing in ancient Greece, multitudes of texts and vases from the period wear that down somewhat.
      - defrost 5mo ago
        No, just observing that some 2,000+ years of story telling portray Achilles as a short (by modern standards - average by ancient Greek standards) cross dressing bisexual. That's not really a gotcha. Given that I'd say there's a lot of latitude for directors to portray the character .. as has been done in a few opera's over the past century or so.
  - dyauspitr 5mo ago
    I don’t think it’s a rumor. There’s literally a shot of her in the trailer.
xdennis 5mo ago
You can't have a 1.55m woman play the greatest Greek hero of all time. It's an insult to Greek culture. If Sydney Sweeney played Martin Luther King it would be equally insulting.
- dyauspitr 5mo ago
  Somehow Sydney Sweeney playing MLK or Samuel L Jackson playing Adolf Hitler actually sounds interesting though.
- michaelmrose 5mo ago
  If Greek machismo were blemished by mere fiction it would always have been eggshell thin. I have a feeling it shall hold up just fine as it has for millennia.
- tsimionescu 5mo ago
  A big part of Achilles' story in the Illiad is that he was hidden among a group of princesses, and that Odysseus had to use a trick to figure out which of the princesses he was. So, even though in other places he is described as quite manly, it also makes sense to portray him as having more feminine features if referencing this part of the canon. I'd also note that Elliott Page is, of course, not a woman.
  - xdennis 5mo ago
    > I'd also note that Elliott Page is, of course, not a woman. Scientists can tell that Lucy the hominid was a female even though only a few of her bones have survived since 3.2 million years ago when she died yet leftists think that Page is no longer a women just because she excised her breasts and changed her government papers. If her bones get fossilized, 100 million years from now you'd still be able to figure out she's a woman. > A big part of Achilles' story in the Iliad Not only is it not a big part, but it's not even in the Iliad. You're clearly just regurgitating talking points. That's a later invention. And it doesn't make him a transsexual. He marries a woman there.

When a non-trans person stars in a film, nobody calls it a 'straight-cis' ideological hit piece.

by vkou 5mo ago

When a non-trans person stars in a film, nobody calls it a 'straight-cis' ideological hit piece.

It's literally just manufactured faux-concern about a rumour and a very very minor character role: Achilles does not actually appear as a living character in Homer's epic poem The Odyssey (as he dies in the Trojan War before Odysseus' journey home). However, in Christopher Nolan’s upcoming film adaptation, the character is rumored to make a brief appearance as a ghost in the Underworld. Viral rumors suggested Elliot Page was cast in this role. Nolan movies will continue to fail or succeed, it's a stretch for the GP commentor to tie that to a person cast for a bit part.

MaxHoppersGhost 5mo ago
Yeah he doesn’t appear as a living character in Homer’s poem but he does appear as a ghost in the poem when they visit the underworld (sorry for the spoilers). Not sure what difference it makes if Achilles shows up as alive or as a ghost but he is in the poem and it would be weird to have a non macho dude play Achilles. Regardless I think it’s a bullshit rumor and people are running with it. The sad thing is how believable the rumor is.
- defrost 5mo ago
  > it would be weird to have a non macho dude play Achilles. Odd. Remind me, wasn't it Achilles who spent a couple of years cross dressing as a girl while hiding out to avoid a fight? - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Achilles_on_Skyros https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Achilles_on_Skyros Buenos noches Senores y Senoras Bienvenidos La primera pregunta es: Que es mas macho, pineapple o knife? Well, let's see My guess is that a pineapple is more macho than a knife Si! Correcto! Pineapple es mas macho que knife La segunda pregunta es: Que es mas macho, lightbulb o schoolbus? Uh, lightbulb? No! Lo siento, Schoolbus es mas macho que lightbulb Gracias. And we'll be back in un momento ~ https://youtu.be/AY3OgLo8DUc?t=14 https://youtu.be/AY3OgLo8DUc?t=14
  - dyauspitr 5mo ago
    I hate these gotchas but I can’t resist and it’s on a flagged comment so no one is really going to see this. Are you saying trans people are just cross-dressers?
    - tsimionescu 5mo ago
      No, it just suggests that to call Achilles "macho" is extremely weird. And the GP didn't even mention his extreme emotionality at the death of his lover, Patrocles, which is like half his plot in the Illiad.
      - MaxHoppersGhost 5mo ago
        They were not lovers, that is modern BS painted over myth.
        defrost 5mo ago
        Modern BS based on Classical era BS ? It's not some new DEI post-WWII crazy. ... frequently interpreted and depicted as lovers in the classical period of Greek literature, particularly in the works of Aeschylus, Aeschines and Plato. Other writers at the time, such as Xenophon in his Symposium, say that their relationship was not sexual, but instead an intense friendship. Ancient writers referenced both sides, and additionally debated whether and how the relationship fit into the scheme of pederasty in ancient Greece. ~ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Achilles_and_Patroclus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Achilles_and_Patroclus I'm pushing 70, don't much care one way or the other, but can state it's been cast as a very probably just another example of Greek lovers since I was in school .. and, as linked above, thought to be as such since the Classic Era writers. You're certainly entitled to the opinion that pederasty wasn't a thing in ancient Greece, multitudes of texts and vases from the period wear that down somewhat.
    - defrost 5mo ago
      No, just observing that some 2,000+ years of story telling portray Achilles as a short (by modern standards - average by ancient Greek standards) cross dressing bisexual. That's not really a gotcha. Given that I'd say there's a lot of latitude for directors to portray the character .. as has been done in a few opera's over the past century or so.
- dyauspitr 5mo ago
  I don’t think it’s a rumor. There’s literally a shot of her in the trailer.

xdennis 5mo ago

You can't have a 1.55m woman play the greatest Greek hero of all time. It's an insult to Greek culture. If Sydney Sweeney played Martin Luther King it would be equally insulting.

dyauspitr 5mo ago
Somehow Sydney Sweeney playing MLK or Samuel L Jackson playing Adolf Hitler actually sounds interesting though.
michaelmrose 5mo ago
If Greek machismo were blemished by mere fiction it would always have been eggshell thin. I have a feeling it shall hold up just fine as it has for millennia.
tsimionescu 5mo ago
A big part of Achilles' story in the Illiad is that he was hidden among a group of princesses, and that Odysseus had to use a trick to figure out which of the princesses he was. So, even though in other places he is described as quite manly, it also makes sense to portray him as having more feminine features if referencing this part of the canon. I'd also note that Elliott Page is, of course, not a woman.
- xdennis 5mo ago
  > I'd also note that Elliott Page is, of course, not a woman. Scientists can tell that Lucy the hominid was a female even though only a few of her bones have survived since 3.2 million years ago when she died yet leftists think that Page is no longer a women just because she excised her breasts and changed her government papers. If her bones get fossilized, 100 million years from now you'd still be able to figure out she's a woman. > A big part of Achilles' story in the Iliad Not only is it not a big part, but it's not even in the Iliad. You're clearly just regurgitating talking points. That's a later invention. And it doesn't make him a transsexual. He marries a woman there.