7 ms·
WWII pigeon message stumps GCHQ decoders
- andyjohnson0 14y agoAccording to this [1] article the message reads: AOAKN HVPKD FNFJW YIDDC RQXSR DJHFP GOVFN MIAPX PABUZ WYYNP CMPNW HJRZH NLXKG MEMKK ONOIB AKEEQ WAOTA RBQRH DJOFM TPZEH LKXGH RGGHT JRZCQ FNKTQ KLDTS FQIRW AOAKN 27 1525/6 [1] http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/9697929/Wanted-for-one-last-mission-call-for-Bletchley-Park-codebreakers-to-crack-the-D-Day-pigeon-cipher.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/9697929/Wante...
- campbeltown 14y agoI think Tirpitz,Gough,Gulag are mentioned.Frigates also. CQ=help(before current SOS signal) KN=in the King's Name but the Arabic possible. The flat bottomed U may refer to a 'reed'-read Also St Nazaire France was a base for carrier pigeons in WWII. Operation Chariot?
- campbeltown 14y agoOr else a sophisticated plug for 'Call of Duty'?
- campbeltown 14y agoYou are all being so clever. What is wrong with our suggestion?
- campbeltown 14y agoPoint: There was a proposed D Day in August 1942 which was called off - hence OK for Operation Chariot March 28th 1942. Also CMPWN - Campbeltown? See Call of Duty Failed D Day. It is a SPOOF - albeit a good one. Not to say it is indecipherable.
- tcgv 14y agoThis is the occurence of each leter in the message: K = 10; N = 9; A = 9; H = 8; R = 8; F = 7; P = 7; O = 7; D = 6; Q = 6; M = 5; J = 5; G = 5; W = 5; T = 5; X = 4; E = 4; Z = 4; I = 4; C = 3; B = 3; L = 3; Y = 3; V = 2; S = 2; U = 1 Doesn't seem like a trully random (white-noise) distribution.
- imurray 14y agoThose counts look fairly typical from a uniform distribution to me. There are fancy tests you could do, but to get a feel for it, I suggest simulation and eyeballing. Add up the counts after drawing 135 characters from a uniform character distribution 20 times, and compare the sorted lists of counts to this set of numbers after sorting.
- praptak 14y agoSomehow the really random distributions look less random than ones biased towards flattening-out. Within 500 truly random points in a square you'll see suspiciously looking clusters of points, choose 5 in each of the 10x10 subsquares and suddenly it looks much more "random". Edit: A bookmarklet to display some random points in a square, tested in Firefox 10 only: javascript:"<html><body><canvas id=\"tutorial\" width=\"150\" height=\"150\">foo</canvas><script>var canvas = document.getElementById('tutorial');var ctx = canvas.getContext('2d');ctx.fillStyle = \"rgb(000,0,0)\";for (var i=0;i<150;i++) {ctx.fillRect (Math.random() * 150,Math.random() * 150, 2, 2); };</script></body></html>"
- praptak 14y ago...and one showing true random and flattened random side by side: javascript:"<html><body><canvas id=\"tutorial\" width=\"200\" height=\"200\">foo</canvas><-><canvas id=\"tutorial2\" width=\"200\" height=\"200\">foo</canvas><script>var canvas = document.getElementById('tutorial');var ctx = canvas.getContext('2d');ctx.fillStyle = \"rgb(000,0,0)\";for (var i=0;i<400;i++) {ctx.fillRect (Math.random() * 200,Math.random() * 200, 2, 2); };</script><script>var canvas = document.getElementById('tutorial2');var ctx = canvas.getContext('2d');ctx.fillStyle = \"rgb(000,0,0)\";for (var i=0;i<20;i++) for(var j=0;j<20;j++) for(k=0;k<1;k++) {ctx.fillRect (i * 10 + Math.random() * 10, j * 10 + Math.random() * 10, 2, 2); };</script></body></html>"
- TazeTSchnitzel 14y agoWow, you're right. The random distribution looks far more "meaningful".
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- deleted 14y ago[deleted]
- codecracker 14y ago"Hitler is evil take him out" Nailed it
- mafiawl 14y agoHi there :-) I read the message slightly differently (I believe some of the supposed 'w's are 'u's and one of your 'F' s is I believe a 'G'. As follows: AOAKN HVPKD FNFJW YIDDC RQXSR DJHFP GOVFN MIAPX PABUZ WYYNP CMPNW HJRZH NLXKG MEMKK ONOIB AKEEQ UAOTA RBQRH DJOFM TPZEH LKXGH RGGHT JRZCQ FNKTQ KLDTS GQIRW AOAKN Also do you know who 'Mason' is? Maybe the person who sent in the photo? Is this a recruiting sergeant for GCHQ? :-)) Not being a code breaker myself what relevance does AOAKN have? Beginning and end of message. This pigeon was found in a chimney - what can we learn from that? What was the procedure when a message was sent but not received? This can be solved :-)
- DanBC 14y agoOne time pads are mathematically provably secure. So, if it's a one time pad then we may not be able to solve this. There are some possibilities. If there's enough information with the pigeon and the message to find the original other half of the pad the message may be decrypted.
- mykhal 14y agoi'd be consistent and consider FNFJW to be actually FNFJU ;)
- sounds 14y agoWhen the news first broke, redditors did a pretty impressive analysis: http://en.reddit.com/r/cryptography/comments/12jipi/ww2_pigeon_carried_an_encrypted_text_here_it_is/ http://en.reddit.com/r/cryptography/comments/12jipi/ww2_pige... I'd place my money on this comment: "Poem code with AOAKN being the indicator group, 27 representing the block count and 1525/6 being a page or line number."
- andyjohnson0 14y agoInteresting point about the indicator-group at the start and end. But I thought poem codes were mainly used for under-cover situations where having a physical copy of the key could be compromising. Why then is this message written on an official-looking message pad with "Pigeon Service" printed at the top? That seems incongruous to me.
- sounds 14y agoThe chaos of WWII can easily be enough of an explanation. I guess I would argue that the repeat of AOAKN is a good indication of a poem code, more than the official pad can dissuade me.
- idrees 14y agoAOAKN seems like greetings or best wishes, in some languages we use same initial and ending for greetings. The template and the font used in the paper does not seems like typewriter print but LaserJet printer. specially the font used in the words on the top "PIGEON SERVICE". does not seems like printed with a typewriter. The war's secret message are supposed not to use a single english readable words. Here we see some english words like "TO", FORM. Date, Reply, originator, copies, sender, signature. Why these words are not encrypted.
- idrees 14y agowhen a paper is folded in a 1 1/8 cylinder for 70 years there should be wrinkles marks on the paper. A capsule was owned by the family of the soldier who brought it home in 1918 http://www.interbug.com/pigeon/messaging/photos/wwi_british_capsule.html http://www.interbug.com/pigeon/messaging/photos/wwi_british_...
- mercury10 14y agoAOA could mean Asalam-O-Aliquem kn=koran hi or hello in English
- robinp1959 14y agoI don't thing FNFJW is correct, I think it's a U. There is another very definite W written in the note, and it looks nothing like the square-ish looking U in a couple of other places.
- jgrahamc 14y agoIt's very curious that the first and last groups are identical: AOAKN. That would not be expected from a one time pad.
- phreeza 14y agoPerhaps it is the identifier of the pad used, and doubles as a kind of EOF signal?
- Nursie 14y ago1 in 11 million probability of the first and last blocks being the same by pure random chance. I'd guess they must be some sort of pre-agreed message sentinel, but even 1 in 11 million chances happen sometimes!
- dkurth 14y agoRight -- as improbable as that sounds, it pales in comparison to the likelihood of renovating your chimney and finding a pigeon with a coded message from WWII!
- phreeza 14y agoAs suggested in the comments on the Telegraph article, it would would seem likely that this message was encrypted with a one-time pad, making it essentially unbreakable. Unless the key is found in some MoD vault (and released to the public).
- andyjohnson0 14y agoProbably correct. Another option is that the message was produced using a cipher machine, which were in use by the allied forces at that time. If a machine and records of the pre-arranged keys still exist then decryption might be possible.
- tomjen3 14y agoIf we can find records of how that machine worked, then we should be able to build a program to break the encryption.
- andyjohnson0 14y ago1525/6 could be a time and day. The Normandy landings took place on 6th June 1944.
- uvdiv 14y agoCould be a page/offset in a one-time pad.
- k3liutZu 14y agoIf this were from 2012, the message would be in plaintext in some DB, and probably easily crackable. WW2 crypto FTW
- Swizec 14y agoAnd if this were from 2012 said DB would be on an encrypted hard drive that can only be unlocked by typing "password".
- mtrimpe 14y agoWhich would reveal a filesystem with the plausible looking content, while having typed a different password would have revealed the true contents of the message.
- ChrisArchitect 14y agolove the friday humor guys ;-)
- SuperChihuahua 14y agoMore reading here: http://www.ciphermysteries.com/2012/11/02/dead-pigeon-sparks-ww2-cipher-mystery http://www.ciphermysteries.com/2012/11/02/dead-pigeon-sparks...
- andyjohnson0 14y agoThis has some good ideas and research, but the author seems fixed on the idea that the message was produced by an SOE agent using a poem cypher. This seems unlikely to me because the cyphertext is written on an official-looking form. Blank message pads and quantities of homing pigeons are presumably not something that an under-cover agent would want to carry around with them.
- FiloSottile 14y agoWow. I have in my possession some really similar looking crypted pages form an Italian partisan of the WWII (prepared and parachuted by the English forces). It seems to me that the situations might be analog. How can I contact them? I see that they are asking for help but I don't see contact info.
- motters 14y agoWhile much has been published about the German Enigma system I've not seen much about the British equivalents during WW2. If this message was produced using a one time pad - which is practical for short messages - then it may be very difficult to decypher.
- tuzemec 14y agoAnd I'm just reading Cryptonomicon by Neal Stephenson. Amazing book.
- ryanslade 14y agoMe too, really made the article stand out for me.
- acron0 14y agoThe article missed some of the message, which read: IDKFA IDDQD IDCLIP IDCLEV
- moresheth 14y agoIDSPISPOPD
- johnmoore 14y agoYou have to look at the facts the message was sent by Sjt W Stot. You do a search and you find this. http://www.archieraf.co.uk/archie/1037zau.html http://www.archieraf.co.uk/archie/1037zau.html And you will find that there was a sgt H H Stott and his crew position is w/op Air Gunner so hence the sjt W Stot. You will then find that On 27th April 1942, the crew of Halifax W1037 ZA-U from 10 Squadron failed to return hence the need to send a message. You will also find that on the birds ID NURP.40.TW.194 and NURP.37.OK.76 - NURP” was the National Union of Racing Pigeons so it was british so this back up the fact it was send by the RAF. The number 40 relates to 1940 but you can't read to much into that if you see this website. http://www.thebirdman.org/Index/Others/Others-Doc-Birds&OtherAnimals/+Doc-Birds&OtherAnimals-Birds/RoleOfPigeonsInWartime.html http://www.thebirdman.org/Index/Others/Others-Doc-Birds&... You will see pigeons with number 38 was used in 1941 and 1942 and a pigeon with number 39 was used in 1945 and a pigeon with number 41 was used in 1942. So this backs up the argument that the date would be between 1940 and 1945. So the date of the crash in 1942 wouldn't be far off. All you have to do is find the codes used by Halifax W1037 ZA-U from 10 Squadron. The RAF would have records once you get that you can decode the message. I thought the GCHQ had smart people working at it. sgt H H Stott personal number is 1058698 take the first four numbers 1058 and use that as the ciper. So the first letter A is plus 1 the second letter is O plus O the four letter is A and it is plus 5 which is G and the four letter K is plus 8 which is W so. The first row is as follows. BOG WT NHF LD KVG JB GJD IK Which so far I have translated as. BOMBER ON GROUND WITH TROOPS NEED HELF FAST LITTLE DEFENCE k___ v____ G_____ J___ B____ G____ J____ D____ I___ K___ Need help solving the rest.
- takluyver 14y agoOn the other hand, 'W Stot' could well be different from 'H H Stott': it's a short surname, and not particularly rare: http://www.192.com/atoz/people/surnames/stott/50/ http://www.192.com/atoz/people/surnames/stott/50/ Also, the article mentions that spelling 'sergeant' with a j, as in the abbreviation 'Sjt' was more common practice in the army, whereas the RAF would probably have used a g.
- andyjohnson0 14y ago@SuperChihuahua posted a link to http://www.ciphermysteries.com/2012/11/02/dead-pigeon-sparks-ww2-cipher-mystery http://www.ciphermysteries.com/2012/11/02/dead-pigeon-sparks.... According to the author of that document it may have been Sergeant William Leslie Stott (508080 in the RAF, died in 1945 aged 35, buried in Chester’s Overleigh Cemetery) [1]. The spelling of "Sergeant" matches. [1] http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/2928300/STOTT,%20WILLIAM%20LESLIE http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/2928300/STOTT,%20...
- takluyver 14y agoBy the signature, in the video clip, there's a box labelled 'Number of copies sent', filled in with a number 2. So, assuming the other copy went on another pigeon, it could well have already been received and deciphered back in WWII. Here's the still from the video showing that and the signature: http://i.imgur.com/KTp15.png http://i.imgur.com/KTp15.png
- tomelders 14y agoRunning low on #pigeons. Please send more #WWII
- emmelaich 14y agoIf you're interested in this you might be interested in a another unsolved message. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taman_Shud_Case http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taman_Shud_Case Also written up recently at http://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/riddle-on-the-sands-20121119-29kwz.html http://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/riddle-on-the-sands-20121119... Unfortunately the evidence is that decryption might depend on either a unavailable first edition of the Enlgish translation of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubaiyat_of_Omar_Khayyam http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubaiyat_of_Omar_Khayyam and/or information from a person who died in 2007.
- brucewaye1984 14y agoI still say this could be from the underground you have to stop and think . The underground use many forms of code to talk to one another
- thornalex 14y agoThis message was sent by a homeland "Y Station", most likely from the RAF, to a decoding facility downstream, in the SIGINT community. At Bletchley or elsewhere. Y Stations were monitoring German military communications from the UK. It is why what we can now read on paper is the verbatim retranscription of a procedure that was heard on a radio receiver by a radio intelligence operator, --ie the presence of the standard "checksum" and EOM signature comprising the reiteration of the header group followed by the total number of 5-groups sent -- 27 in the instance. The origin time "1522" is the ZULU at which the actual transmission started while the end of transmission time is written after the checksum "1525/6". Taking pauses into account, this means the morse code operator was transmitting the groups at 10wpm, a credible speed for this type of operation. I hope this helps. Greetings from rainy Montreal David Thorne-Alexander http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beaumanor_Hall http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beaumanor_Hall
- joegrd 14y agoIf you count you will find that there are 26 diferent codes. This tells me that each 5 letter code represents a letter of the alphbet. This is not a message but it is the code itself.