4 ms·

Not UK but in Germany you can face criminal prosecution for insulting the chancellor, https://x.com/Pirat_Nation/status/2056692341399081235 https://x.com/Pirat

by kypro 5mo ago

Not UK but in Germany you can face criminal prosecution for insulting the chancellor, https://x.com/Pirat_Nation/status/2056692341399081235 https://x.com/Pirat_Nation/status/2056692341399081235 While here in the UK you can be arrested and charged for saying mean things about the royal family on private whatsapp groups, https://www.itv.com/news/london/2023-09-07/five-former-met-police-officers-plead-guilty-over-racist-whatsapps https://www.itv.com/news/london/2023-09-07/five-former-met-p...

graemep 5mo ago
The second one was for specifically racist messages - i.e. breaching hate speech laws - not just being mean. I am opposed to criminalising hate speech, BUT I think its important to be clear its not just "saying mean things".
- kypro 5mo ago
  > The second one was for specifically racist messages - i.e. breaching hate speech laws - not just being mean. Can you provide a definition of "hate speech" which doesn't also apply to "mean words"? Are you suggesting racist words are a special category of mean words or something? If so why?
  - mghackerlady 5mo ago
    Hate speech is a subcategory of mean words that needs to be legally prevented for a just society where people are equal. Racist words are only hate speech if they are uttered and used in a discriminatory manner. Since whatever group is targeted by hate speech is the only group that can be harmed by the hate speech, they should be handled differently in the eyes of the law to ensure no one group is excessively discriminated against
    - kypro 5mo ago
      Do you feel the same about homophobia, height discrimination, fat discrimination and other discriminatory behaviours? Or do you feel these are different enough that they should be treated differently? I think I disagree with you on this, but I think what you've said is a perfectly valid opinion and appreciate your response. I'm sorry that it appears someone has downvoted you for disagreeing. This seems to be a new trend on HN and I wish people would stop doing it.
      - graemep 5mo ago
        > Do you feel the same about homophobia, height discrimination, fat discrimination and other discriminatory behaviours? The first is covered by current UK law, the other are not. > I think I disagree with you on this, but I think what you've said is a perfectly valid opinion and appreciate your response. I'm sorry that it appears someone has downvoted you for disagreeing. This seems to be a new trend on HN and I wish people would stop doing it Agreed. I upvote a lot of things I disagree with to counter unfair downvotes (including GP).
      - mghackerlady 5mo ago
        homophobia, of course, considering I myself am bisexual and have had relations with other women. Height and weight discrimination depends on what is considered height and weight discrimination. Saying you need to be x height or y weight to do something? That's safety. People saying they'd only date someone above x height or below y weight? I bit shallow but that's personal preference. Saying everyone above 200 pounds is lazy and deserves to die of a heart attack? Maybe then it crosses the line into actual discrimination
        graemep 5mo ago
        > People saying they'd only date someone above x height or below y weight? What about height and weight affecting career prospects?
        mghackerlady 5mo ago
        Depends. Is there a reason to limit them (safety, they need to be big/small enough to do something, etc.)? if not, then it seems a bit discriminatory
  - graemep 5mo ago
    The law does provide a definition of hate speech that does not apply to mean words in general. You assume we both know what is meant by "racist words" which implies it is a category that can be defined. Hate speech laws apply to more categories than race too. The wikipedia article has excerpts of and links to the relevant legislation and important cases: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_speech_laws_in_the_United_Kingdom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_speech_laws_in_the_United...

by kypro 5mo ago

graemep 5mo ago

The second one was for specifically racist messages - i.e. breaching hate speech laws - not just being mean. I am opposed to criminalising hate speech, BUT I think its important to be clear its not just "saying mean things".

kypro 5mo ago
> The second one was for specifically racist messages - i.e. breaching hate speech laws - not just being mean. Can you provide a definition of "hate speech" which doesn't also apply to "mean words"? Are you suggesting racist words are a special category of mean words or something? If so why?
- mghackerlady 5mo ago
  Hate speech is a subcategory of mean words that needs to be legally prevented for a just society where people are equal. Racist words are only hate speech if they are uttered and used in a discriminatory manner. Since whatever group is targeted by hate speech is the only group that can be harmed by the hate speech, they should be handled differently in the eyes of the law to ensure no one group is excessively discriminated against
  - kypro 5mo ago
    Do you feel the same about homophobia, height discrimination, fat discrimination and other discriminatory behaviours? Or do you feel these are different enough that they should be treated differently? I think I disagree with you on this, but I think what you've said is a perfectly valid opinion and appreciate your response. I'm sorry that it appears someone has downvoted you for disagreeing. This seems to be a new trend on HN and I wish people would stop doing it.
    - graemep 5mo ago
      > Do you feel the same about homophobia, height discrimination, fat discrimination and other discriminatory behaviours? The first is covered by current UK law, the other are not. > I think I disagree with you on this, but I think what you've said is a perfectly valid opinion and appreciate your response. I'm sorry that it appears someone has downvoted you for disagreeing. This seems to be a new trend on HN and I wish people would stop doing it Agreed. I upvote a lot of things I disagree with to counter unfair downvotes (including GP).
    - mghackerlady 5mo ago
      homophobia, of course, considering I myself am bisexual and have had relations with other women. Height and weight discrimination depends on what is considered height and weight discrimination. Saying you need to be x height or y weight to do something? That's safety. People saying they'd only date someone above x height or below y weight? I bit shallow but that's personal preference. Saying everyone above 200 pounds is lazy and deserves to die of a heart attack? Maybe then it crosses the line into actual discrimination
      - graemep 5mo ago
        > People saying they'd only date someone above x height or below y weight? What about height and weight affecting career prospects?
        mghackerlady 5mo ago
        Depends. Is there a reason to limit them (safety, they need to be big/small enough to do something, etc.)? if not, then it seems a bit discriminatory
- graemep 5mo ago
  The law does provide a definition of hate speech that does not apply to mean words in general. You assume we both know what is meant by "racist words" which implies it is a category that can be defined. Hate speech laws apply to more categories than race too. The wikipedia article has excerpts of and links to the relevant legislation and important cases: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_speech_laws_in_the_United_Kingdom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_speech_laws_in_the_United...