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I think social democracy is, by its nature, trying to be a humane system while allowing a form of capitalism. The Nordics may not be a perfect example of social

by slwvx 5mo ago

I think social democracy is, by its nature, trying to be a humane system while allowing a form of capitalism. The Nordics may not be a perfect example of social democracy, but a useful one. Looking closer to home, the progressive era in the US was all about making society more humane while still allowing capitalism. In the sense of capitalism of these examples, I definitely think it can be humane. For a more recent example, listen to this podcast episode: https://www.acquired.fm/episodes/vanguard https://www.acquired.fm/episodes/vanguard

throawayonthe 5mo ago
yes that's why it's inhumane and relies on unequal exchange/exploitation of the global south while still backsliding on domestic welfare appeasement policies
- simianwords 5mo ago
  Global south is not exploited inhumanely. This ideology called "thirdworldism" or "decolonialism" is becoming popular but it ultimately fails on any scrutiny. The west has not got rich at the expense of the global south. Both have gone up .
  - tao_oat 5mo ago
    > The west has not got rich at the expense of the global south What timeframe are you considering in this opinion?
    - nine_k 5mo ago
      The post-colonial time obviously, when much of the "Global South" has become independent states, thus peers, not colonies.
      - throawayonthe 5mo ago
        do you actually believe they became 'peers' on equal footing? does them being 'peers' somehow prevent extractive relationships in a capitalist global system?
  - unfitted2545 5mo ago
    Wow. Tell that to the cobalt miners in the DRC.
    - gruez 5mo ago
      Did "The West" cause warlords in DRC to exist? Even if you ignore the efforts by western firms to not buy cobalt from the DRC, it's questionable whether the DRC would be better if they had no exploitable natural resources. Neighboring countries without natural resources aren't exactly paragons of good governance either.
jorvi 5mo ago
The progressive era in the US had nothing to do with capitalism, it's a different axis. And also a very useful red herring for the people with capital. "They have you fighting a culture war so you aren't fighting a class war" and all that jazz.
- slwvx 5mo ago
  "The Great Tax Wars" by Steven R. Weisman is about the debate about taxes during the progressive era. On p 123 [1] we read “Since 1860, federal taxation had increased sixfold, yet the tax burden was primarily borne by the poor. At the same time, corporate profits had increased tenfold, much of it untaxed. It cost rich Americans 8 to 10 percent of their earnings to finance the government, while the poor paid taxes equivalent to 75 to 80 percent of their savings.” Sounds very much like today: those with capital (like me) are benefiting from a low tax rate, while those who do have capital and earn their income from labor pay a higher percentage of their income as taxes. I definitely see the debates of the progressive era as being about capital. [1] https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Great_Tax_Wars/kw-Qi9kZwFgC?hl=en&gbpv=1&bsq=%22Since%201860,%20federal%20taxation%20had%20increased%20sixfold%22 https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Great_Tax_Wars/kw-Q...
  - slwvx 5mo ago
    > those who do have capital and earn their income from labor... I meant "those who do NOT have capital ...

by slwvx 5mo ago

throawayonthe 5mo ago

yes that's why it's inhumane and relies on unequal exchange/exploitation of the global south while still backsliding on domestic welfare appeasement policies

simianwords 5mo ago
Global south is not exploited inhumanely. This ideology called "thirdworldism" or "decolonialism" is becoming popular but it ultimately fails on any scrutiny. The west has not got rich at the expense of the global south. Both have gone up .
- tao_oat 5mo ago
  > The west has not got rich at the expense of the global south What timeframe are you considering in this opinion?
  - nine_k 5mo ago
    The post-colonial time obviously, when much of the "Global South" has become independent states, thus peers, not colonies.
    - throawayonthe 5mo ago
      do you actually believe they became 'peers' on equal footing? does them being 'peers' somehow prevent extractive relationships in a capitalist global system?
- unfitted2545 5mo ago
  Wow. Tell that to the cobalt miners in the DRC.
  - gruez 5mo ago
    Did "The West" cause warlords in DRC to exist? Even if you ignore the efforts by western firms to not buy cobalt from the DRC, it's questionable whether the DRC would be better if they had no exploitable natural resources. Neighboring countries without natural resources aren't exactly paragons of good governance either.

jorvi 5mo ago

The progressive era in the US had nothing to do with capitalism, it's a different axis. And also a very useful red herring for the people with capital. "They have you fighting a culture war so you aren't fighting a class war" and all that jazz.

slwvx 5mo ago
"The Great Tax Wars" by Steven R. Weisman is about the debate about taxes during the progressive era. On p 123 [1] we read “Since 1860, federal taxation had increased sixfold, yet the tax burden was primarily borne by the poor. At the same time, corporate profits had increased tenfold, much of it untaxed. It cost rich Americans 8 to 10 percent of their earnings to finance the government, while the poor paid taxes equivalent to 75 to 80 percent of their savings.” Sounds very much like today: those with capital (like me) are benefiting from a low tax rate, while those who do have capital and earn their income from labor pay a higher percentage of their income as taxes. I definitely see the debates of the progressive era as being about capital. [1] https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Great_Tax_Wars/kw-Qi9kZwFgC?hl=en&gbpv=1&bsq=%22Since%201860,%20federal%20taxation%20had%20increased%20sixfold%22 https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Great_Tax_Wars/kw-Q...
- slwvx 5mo ago
  > those who do have capital and earn their income from labor... I meant "those who do NOT have capital ...