6 ms·

Debian GNU/Linux 5.0 released

85 points by dimm 18y ago

alnayyir 18y ago
Does anyone know of any major changes in this version?
- reitzensteinm 18y ago
  There's a link to release notes on the page, a few clicks in is probably what you're looking for: http://www.debian.net/releases/lenny/i386/release-notes/ch-whats-new.en.html http://www.debian.net/releases/lenny/i386/release-notes/ch-w...
sant0sk1 18y ago
Debian is 1/2 of my Linux power combo. Debian servers, Ubuntu desktops. Love it. Unlike Ubuntu, Debian's release cycle is so sporadic (and long) that I often forget they're working on a new release. Needless to say I was surprised and excited by this announcement. Props to the Debian team!
- samueladam 18y ago
  Congratulations to the Debian Community. I used to have the same combo but finally switched my desktops to Lenny. Lenny feels lighter than Ubuntu and it has been interesting to learn how to tweak it to make it as pleasant as Ubuntu.
- likpok 18y ago
  If you want a reasonable release cycle, without the drool-proofing of ubuntu, try Debian sid. It's the unstable branch, and gets rolling updates and the like. It is also reasonably stable.
  - mickt 18y ago
    It's usually reasonably stable, but occasionally there will be severe breakage when major components are being updated and reach the repo's at different times. This happens more with X, Gnome, KDE ... but sometimes when major system libraries are upgraded bad things can happen.
    - ori_b 18y ago
      I've had less serious breakage under Debian Unstable than I've had under stable released of Ubuntu, surprisingly enough. I know, anecdote != data, but that's my experience with it.
    - jonny_noog 18y ago
      For me, testing is the sweet spot. I have run a mixed Lenny/Sid (mostly Lenny, with the occasional package pulled from unstable, currently it's all Lenny) for a long time now and not yet had a serious issue that was not my own fault. Testing is also a rolling release, but you've got one more level of protection in unstable for serious stuff to get worked out before packages get to you. There is also a useful tool called apt-listbugs which will display information about serious bugs during the upgrade process before packages are upgraded and allow you one last chance to abort the upgrade. It's pretty commonly thought in the Debian community that if you're running Debian on a desktop system (as opposed to a server) then there isn't much reason not to run testing. I will continue to track the new testing in due time. I'm kind of going to miss Lenny though. :)
      - mickt 18y ago
        Sometimes it's fun to be on the "bleeding edge", such as when KDE4 first went from experimental to unstable. Plus, it benefits Debian as they've more users testing potentially breaking packages and filing bug-reports.
        jonny_noog 18y ago
        I used to run unstable for a while and it was by and large still more than stable enough for general use, regardless of its name. But as I got busier on my own development projects I stated to dislike the occasional issues that would pop up here or there and take my attention away from what I was really interesting in. Hence why I am now using testing with as little pulled from unstable as possible (usually that means nothing pulled from unstable). I still like to contribute in my own little way, filing/helping with bug reports on the testing release. Just recently I was pleased to be able to assist the fglrx-driver maintainer (and myself) with testing a fix for a reported bug. If I wasn't so busy, I'd probably still be running unstable, it's still more stable than a lot of distros out there. :)
  - Micand 18y ago
    Debian Sid treated me well enough until today, when I decided to upgrade all packages before all the post-Lenny stuff started flowing in. libxcb-render-util0 had previously been upgraded to Experimental's version when I installed Awesome 3, which was available only in Experimental. After removing Awesome 3, I was unable to revert back to Sid's version of libxcb-render-util0 (as well as libxcb1, which had also been upgraded) without removing a great number of other packages. After forty minutes of messing around with aptitude and dpkg without making headway, I said to hell with it and replaced Debian with a minimal install of Ubuntu. Sid has also done some odd things in the past couple weeks, such as removing slocate from the repositories. It took me a few minutes to figure out that I ought to switch to mlocate. The primary drawback before that was the delayed security updates – due to the Lenny release process, the Firefox (well, Iceweasel) 3.0.5 upgrade took perhaps two weeks to enter Sid, leaving me with the vulnerable 3.0.4 for the period. Ubuntu seems to offer swifter updates. A minimal install of Ubuntu is very nearly as lightweight as Debian. It provides a stable base and a clearer upgrade path than Sid, albeit at the cost of packages that are behind the cutting edge. Security updates for any packages in Ubuntu's main repository seem more timely than for those in Debian Sid; however, a great many lesser-used packages in Ubuntu's universe repository get no security support at all. Overall, given the issues I suffered when mixing bleeding-edge packages from Debian's Experimental with a Sid-based system, I believe Ubuntu is a better fit for my needs. Regardless of which I settle on, both are a great deal more fun than Gentoo, which I ran for five years before switching to Sid in September. The novelty of being able to upgrade all packages in five minutes instead of fifteen hours still fills me with joy.
raamdev 18y ago
Official release announcement: http://debian.org/News/2009/20090214 http://debian.org/News/2009/20090214
nuclear_eclipse 18y ago
Wow: another full release cycle of KDE 3.5 in Debian. At this rate KDE 5 will be out before Debian ships KDE 4 by default...
- Bjoern 18y ago
  Please don't misunderstand or compare Debian with Ubuntu. (at least I have the feeling that people do this nowadays because Ubuntu is so popular). They have different release strategies, Debian focuses on stability and security as a Server orientated distribution. Ubuntu on the other hand has a strong commitment twoards the user desktop segment. Both is fine, I mean Ubuntu is basically just Debian with faster release cycles (and they like to taint their Kernel). (sorry for the oversimplification) If you prefer more uptodate Software from the Debian side, please try testing, unstable and experimental. For the totally impatient there is e.g. Backports, Sidux and many more. Cross-pinning (mixing of Debian and Ubuntu is possible too.) Don't know how far Ubutnutu (or how ever you write that project name) has come.
  - jrockway 18y ago
    > If you prefer more uptodate Software from the Debian side, please try testing, unstable and experimental. Indeed. I have used Debian Unstable as my desktop OS forever, and it's wonderful. It does not break nearly as often as you might guess by the name. (Maybe once a year.) It certainly breaks less than Ubuntu, although I got rid of my last Ubuntu machine about a year ago.
    - Bjoern 18y ago
      Interesting, could you tell me what you mean by break? Is the issue ultimately solvable by e.g. aptitude and alike or you need to mess around by hand in the apropriate dpkg files?
  - davidw 18y ago
    Ubuntu's "strategy" is that they release every 6 months, and do a long term support release every few years. I am not sure those are the ideal numbers to use (6 months is short), but on the whole, I think I prefer that approach to Debian's "we'll release...sometime... if we're not debating how many GPL's fit on the head of a pin". Debian is excellent, and I started maintaining a few packages for it in 1997, but my involvement has waned to pretty much nothing, and these days I'm a mostly happy Ubuntu user. "Use unstable" is a bad argument. Sure, it doesn't break most of the time, but it can and does. You can't base a business on that kind of thing. Also, there is nothing inherently 'server' or 'desktop' about Ubuntu or Debian - the first may put some resources into improving the desktop experience, but the good patches eventually flow back to Debian, as it's all open source. And Ubuntu makes for a fine server, too.
jrockway 18y ago
This is good because it means unstable will be unfrozen again. Hopefully we will have linux-2.6.28 and ghc-6.10 in unstable soon :)
LogicHoleFlaw 18y ago
I'm glad to see SELinux finally available as standard. This is one thing I've been missing as part of my security hardening on my Debian servers. It gives better peace of mind. Oh! OpenJDK is now included as well. This just gets better and better.
c00p3r 18y ago
It if for hobbyists, I think. It cannot compete with ubuntu as desktop, because of money, and it is ridiculous as server compared to CentOS.
- critic 18y ago
  > it is ridiculous as server compared to CentOS. What makes you say that?
  - c00p3r 18y ago
    It is not very difficult task to ask google search about how many key-developers receives their paychecks from RedHat and IBM and how many of them contributing to Fedora project. Then you can try to figure out how many installations of RHEL around, in the worlds biggest datacenters and then which distro amazon or google uses. Then you can take a look on RedHat's revenue. At last, if you're really curious, you can download .src.rpm of the latest CentOS kernel and take a look to the patches. and very last hint: Oracle. DB2.
    - c00p3r 18y ago
      okay =) I understand, that people are not familiar with situation in this Linux world. When you selecting CentOS you're reusing Fedora's and then RHEL's release circles and time of their gurus. Fedora is an bleeding edge distro, for rapid integration and testing, while RHEL is Fedora-based commercially supported by RedHat system. CentOS is a repackaging of the RHEL's sources. Oracle reusing RHEL for its Unbreakable Linux. Why wouldn't you?
  - psadauskas 18y ago
    I'd like to know, too. We use CentOS 5 for servers, and I hate it because anytime I want to do anything interesting, we have to compile stuff from source to get anything recent enough. (Ruby, Git, etc...)
    - c00p3r 18y ago
      runing the rpmbuild --rebuild command on a Fedora's .src.rpm is not a rocket science.

85 points by dimm 18y ago

alnayyir 18y ago

Does anyone know of any major changes in this version?

reitzensteinm 18y ago
There's a link to release notes on the page, a few clicks in is probably what you're looking for: http://www.debian.net/releases/lenny/i386/release-notes/ch-whats-new.en.html http://www.debian.net/releases/lenny/i386/release-notes/ch-w...

sant0sk1 18y ago

Debian is 1/2 of my Linux power combo. Debian servers, Ubuntu desktops. Love it. Unlike Ubuntu, Debian's release cycle is so sporadic (and long) that I often forget they're working on a new release. Needless to say I was surprised and excited by this announcement. Props to the Debian team!

samueladam 18y ago
Congratulations to the Debian Community. I used to have the same combo but finally switched my desktops to Lenny. Lenny feels lighter than Ubuntu and it has been interesting to learn how to tweak it to make it as pleasant as Ubuntu.
likpok 18y ago
If you want a reasonable release cycle, without the drool-proofing of ubuntu, try Debian sid. It's the unstable branch, and gets rolling updates and the like. It is also reasonably stable.
- mickt 18y ago
  It's usually reasonably stable, but occasionally there will be severe breakage when major components are being updated and reach the repo's at different times. This happens more with X, Gnome, KDE ... but sometimes when major system libraries are upgraded bad things can happen.
  - ori_b 18y ago
    I've had less serious breakage under Debian Unstable than I've had under stable released of Ubuntu, surprisingly enough. I know, anecdote != data, but that's my experience with it.
  - jonny_noog 18y ago
    For me, testing is the sweet spot. I have run a mixed Lenny/Sid (mostly Lenny, with the occasional package pulled from unstable, currently it's all Lenny) for a long time now and not yet had a serious issue that was not my own fault. Testing is also a rolling release, but you've got one more level of protection in unstable for serious stuff to get worked out before packages get to you. There is also a useful tool called apt-listbugs which will display information about serious bugs during the upgrade process before packages are upgraded and allow you one last chance to abort the upgrade. It's pretty commonly thought in the Debian community that if you're running Debian on a desktop system (as opposed to a server) then there isn't much reason not to run testing. I will continue to track the new testing in due time. I'm kind of going to miss Lenny though. :)
    - mickt 18y ago
      Sometimes it's fun to be on the "bleeding edge", such as when KDE4 first went from experimental to unstable. Plus, it benefits Debian as they've more users testing potentially breaking packages and filing bug-reports.
      - jonny_noog 18y ago
        I used to run unstable for a while and it was by and large still more than stable enough for general use, regardless of its name. But as I got busier on my own development projects I stated to dislike the occasional issues that would pop up here or there and take my attention away from what I was really interesting in. Hence why I am now using testing with as little pulled from unstable as possible (usually that means nothing pulled from unstable). I still like to contribute in my own little way, filing/helping with bug reports on the testing release. Just recently I was pleased to be able to assist the fglrx-driver maintainer (and myself) with testing a fix for a reported bug. If I wasn't so busy, I'd probably still be running unstable, it's still more stable than a lot of distros out there. :)
- Micand 18y ago
  Debian Sid treated me well enough until today, when I decided to upgrade all packages before all the post-Lenny stuff started flowing in. libxcb-render-util0 had previously been upgraded to Experimental's version when I installed Awesome 3, which was available only in Experimental. After removing Awesome 3, I was unable to revert back to Sid's version of libxcb-render-util0 (as well as libxcb1, which had also been upgraded) without removing a great number of other packages. After forty minutes of messing around with aptitude and dpkg without making headway, I said to hell with it and replaced Debian with a minimal install of Ubuntu. Sid has also done some odd things in the past couple weeks, such as removing slocate from the repositories. It took me a few minutes to figure out that I ought to switch to mlocate. The primary drawback before that was the delayed security updates – due to the Lenny release process, the Firefox (well, Iceweasel) 3.0.5 upgrade took perhaps two weeks to enter Sid, leaving me with the vulnerable 3.0.4 for the period. Ubuntu seems to offer swifter updates. A minimal install of Ubuntu is very nearly as lightweight as Debian. It provides a stable base and a clearer upgrade path than Sid, albeit at the cost of packages that are behind the cutting edge. Security updates for any packages in Ubuntu's main repository seem more timely than for those in Debian Sid; however, a great many lesser-used packages in Ubuntu's universe repository get no security support at all. Overall, given the issues I suffered when mixing bleeding-edge packages from Debian's Experimental with a Sid-based system, I believe Ubuntu is a better fit for my needs. Regardless of which I settle on, both are a great deal more fun than Gentoo, which I ran for five years before switching to Sid in September. The novelty of being able to upgrade all packages in five minutes instead of fifteen hours still fills me with joy.

raamdev 18y ago

Official release announcement: http://debian.org/News/2009/20090214 http://debian.org/News/2009/20090214

nuclear_eclipse 18y ago

Wow: another full release cycle of KDE 3.5 in Debian. At this rate KDE 5 will be out before Debian ships KDE 4 by default...

Bjoern 18y ago
Please don't misunderstand or compare Debian with Ubuntu. (at least I have the feeling that people do this nowadays because Ubuntu is so popular). They have different release strategies, Debian focuses on stability and security as a Server orientated distribution. Ubuntu on the other hand has a strong commitment twoards the user desktop segment. Both is fine, I mean Ubuntu is basically just Debian with faster release cycles (and they like to taint their Kernel). (sorry for the oversimplification) If you prefer more uptodate Software from the Debian side, please try testing, unstable and experimental. For the totally impatient there is e.g. Backports, Sidux and many more. Cross-pinning (mixing of Debian and Ubuntu is possible too.) Don't know how far Ubutnutu (or how ever you write that project name) has come.
- jrockway 18y ago
  > If you prefer more uptodate Software from the Debian side, please try testing, unstable and experimental. Indeed. I have used Debian Unstable as my desktop OS forever, and it's wonderful. It does not break nearly as often as you might guess by the name. (Maybe once a year.) It certainly breaks less than Ubuntu, although I got rid of my last Ubuntu machine about a year ago.
  - Bjoern 18y ago
    Interesting, could you tell me what you mean by break? Is the issue ultimately solvable by e.g. aptitude and alike or you need to mess around by hand in the apropriate dpkg files?
- davidw 18y ago
  Ubuntu's "strategy" is that they release every 6 months, and do a long term support release every few years. I am not sure those are the ideal numbers to use (6 months is short), but on the whole, I think I prefer that approach to Debian's "we'll release...sometime... if we're not debating how many GPL's fit on the head of a pin". Debian is excellent, and I started maintaining a few packages for it in 1997, but my involvement has waned to pretty much nothing, and these days I'm a mostly happy Ubuntu user. "Use unstable" is a bad argument. Sure, it doesn't break most of the time, but it can and does. You can't base a business on that kind of thing. Also, there is nothing inherently 'server' or 'desktop' about Ubuntu or Debian - the first may put some resources into improving the desktop experience, but the good patches eventually flow back to Debian, as it's all open source. And Ubuntu makes for a fine server, too.

jrockway 18y ago

This is good because it means unstable will be unfrozen again. Hopefully we will have linux-2.6.28 and ghc-6.10 in unstable soon :)

LogicHoleFlaw 18y ago

I'm glad to see SELinux finally available as standard. This is one thing I've been missing as part of my security hardening on my Debian servers. It gives better peace of mind. Oh! OpenJDK is now included as well. This just gets better and better.

c00p3r 18y ago

It if for hobbyists, I think. It cannot compete with ubuntu as desktop, because of money, and it is ridiculous as server compared to CentOS.

critic 18y ago
> it is ridiculous as server compared to CentOS. What makes you say that?
- c00p3r 18y ago
  It is not very difficult task to ask google search about how many key-developers receives their paychecks from RedHat and IBM and how many of them contributing to Fedora project. Then you can try to figure out how many installations of RHEL around, in the worlds biggest datacenters and then which distro amazon or google uses. Then you can take a look on RedHat's revenue. At last, if you're really curious, you can download .src.rpm of the latest CentOS kernel and take a look to the patches. and very last hint: Oracle. DB2.
  - c00p3r 18y ago
    okay =) I understand, that people are not familiar with situation in this Linux world. When you selecting CentOS you're reusing Fedora's and then RHEL's release circles and time of their gurus. Fedora is an bleeding edge distro, for rapid integration and testing, while RHEL is Fedora-based commercially supported by RedHat system. CentOS is a repackaging of the RHEL's sources. Oracle reusing RHEL for its Unbreakable Linux. Why wouldn't you?
- psadauskas 18y ago
  I'd like to know, too. We use CentOS 5 for servers, and I hate it because anytime I want to do anything interesting, we have to compile stuff from source to get anything recent enough. (Ruby, Git, etc...)
  - c00p3r 18y ago
    runing the rpmbuild --rebuild command on a Fedora's .src.rpm is not a rocket science.