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> while JetBrains products are full-blown IDEs, with abilities Zed will never offer. None of those matter if they just close the IDE before it indexes. > When

> while JetBrains products are full-blown IDEs, with abilities Zed will never offer. None of those matter if they just close the IDE before it indexes. > When all of these tiny issues come together, it makes me NOT want to program. I don’t want to sit around and wait for startup times to get my ideas onto the screen. I don’t want to worry that my CPU or RAM is going to be exhausted and I am going to have to restart my machine. I want to open my editor and immediately enter a flow state. I want the tooling to assist me when useful, and stay out of my way when not.

pjmlp 5mo ago
Yes I have read that, and whatever, some people rather walk straight away, because waiting for the car to warm up takes a few minutes. I have IDE tooling experience since Borland products for MS-DOS, and plenty of programming editors as well, between PC, Amiga, Mac and UNIX clones.
- ryanolsonx 5mo ago
  Idk what car you have but mine can drive right away, just like Zed.
  - linsomniac 5mo ago
    Not who you are replying to, but the new Lexus RX350h takes and absurdly long time to be ready to drive away, if you want to use the rear camera to help back out of the parking lot.
    - 4ndrewl 5mo ago
      Wait, don't you reverse into a parking space and drive straight out?
      - pentium166 5mo ago
        Slow car computers aside, it doesn't really make a difference in the scheme of things. Spend the time backing up now or later. Also, maybe you need to use your trunk and you'd rather have it opening into free space instead of another vehicle or a wall.
        kstrauser 5mo ago
        I contend it does. People tend to take way more time backing into a space than pulling into it, and hardly more time backing out of a space than pulling forward out of it. I'm certain this isn't how they think of it, but when I see someone blocking traffic while they painfully back into a spot, I imagine them imagining themselves having to fly out of there without a moment to spare, like they plan on having a drastic emergency before they leave. And if that person isn't driving a police or fire department car or the like, I roll my eyes at the delusion of grandeur.
        djhn 5mo ago
        Surely a big part of the reason is steering leverage relative to the kerb. You are able to one-shot reverse parallel park into a much narrower gap without hitting the bumpers of the cars around you or getting onto the pavement.
      - antonvs 5mo ago
        I always wonder why people do this. What’s the reasoning?
        smackeyacky 5mo ago
        I wonder this too. It’s much harder to back into a cramped parking space than backing out into an open space. So they do it very slowly. Watching people do this is frustrating.
        robrtsql 5mo ago
        They would rather back into a parking spot surrounded by stationary obstacles than back into a parking lot or road which may contain pedestrians or other drivers. I'm not saying _I_ back into spaces. I generally drive into spots and reverse out of them. However, I admit that what I do is a tradeoff where I take on risk in order to have a mechanically easier time entering and exiting the space.
        lostmsu 5mo ago
        This makes no sense. In either case the car traverses the same space once forwards and once backwards.
        pegasus 5mo ago
        That's true, but what GP is saying is that when you're pulling out, you are traversing the part of the space overwhelmingly more likely to contain passing pedestrians and vehicles with full visibility. And then some parking spots require parallel parking which is best done via backing up anyway.
        lostmsu 5mo ago
        I don't think you understood what my comment says. The whole point is that it covers your "but".
        5mo ago
      - linsomniac 5mo ago
        In my cars, generally, yes. The Lexus in question is my MIL's car, and she prefers it parked at home nose-in. We were also running some errands that required access to the rear (groceries, returning a printer/fax machine).
    - za3faran 5mo ago
      Can you elaborate more on why it takes a long time to be ready to drive away in reverse? How long are you talking?
      - linsomniac 5mo ago
        I didn't time it but I'd put it at 30 seconds. It sits there for a while with the infotainment screen black, then it does this animated splash screen, then it loads the infotainment/cameras.
  - kstrauser 5mo ago
    Side note: to a rounding error, all modern cars can be safely driven right away. Wait a few seconds for the sound of the engine to change, indicating that oil is now happily pumping through all the grindy bits, and then you're ready to go. I'm not saying you want to drag race your neighbor 10 seconds after starting the engine for the first time that day, but once you don't hear the tappets being tappety, it's OK to pull out of your driveway and start moving at a sane pace.
    - rurban 5mo ago
      > indicating that oil is now happily pumping through all the grindy bits That's not a modern car. Modern cars do not pump oil through all the grindy bits. Modern cars need to wait for the BMC to stabilize its power.
  - pjmlp 5mo ago
    Depending on the planet region, and season, you might actually have to wait before driving. Frozen Winters, heavy snow, diesel pumps,....
- wiseowise 5mo ago
  > because waiting for the car to warm up takes a few minutes. If only it was this. Usually the car transmission breaks, there are random engine shutdowns, and after restart the car just doesn't function anymore. And when it actually does start, it moves so slow and consumes so much fuel that I can't justify using it. That's my experience with JetBrains IDEs.
- xigoi 5mo ago
  If a text editor is a car, an IDE is an airplane. You can get to more places with it, but you need a lot of space and time to even start moving and then it consumes a ridiculous amount of fuel.
  - j_w 5mo ago
    Horrible analogy. You can't "get to more places" with an airplane. An airplane can only go to very limited number of locations compared to a car.
    - xigoi 5mo ago
      That actually makes it a great analogy. An IDE allows you to make common edits like renaming a variable, just as an airplane gets you to any big city. But when you need to make an uncommon edit, it’s better to reach for Vim – just like you need a car to get to some random place in the middle of woods.
      - j_w 5mo ago
        This comment is so absurd I'm struggling to reply. A car takes you to an "uncommon place in the woods?" Taking a plane is a "common edit?" For the majority of people a car would be the "common" usage and a plane would be the "uncommon" usage. Unless you're a billionaire taking your private jet between runways to then hop on a helicopter for the rest of your trip. It's a terrible analogy.
usef- 5mo ago
Exhausting the CPU and memory? I'm genuinely curious how he gets such a different experience to me. Startup is definitely slower than vim though, but it's something that happens only once for me, then it stays open all day (unlike vim which I close and open repeatedly)
onehair 5mo ago
One can always use multiple editors for what they do besg. Zed, helix, nvim for small files in gui or terminal. A solid Slow start IDE for solid extended time work

pjmlp 5mo ago

Yes I have read that, and whatever, some people rather walk straight away, because waiting for the car to warm up takes a few minutes. I have IDE tooling experience since Borland products for MS-DOS, and plenty of programming editors as well, between PC, Amiga, Mac and UNIX clones.

ryanolsonx 5mo ago
Idk what car you have but mine can drive right away, just like Zed.
- linsomniac 5mo ago
  Not who you are replying to, but the new Lexus RX350h takes and absurdly long time to be ready to drive away, if you want to use the rear camera to help back out of the parking lot.
  - 4ndrewl 5mo ago
    Wait, don't you reverse into a parking space and drive straight out?
    - pentium166 5mo ago
      Slow car computers aside, it doesn't really make a difference in the scheme of things. Spend the time backing up now or later. Also, maybe you need to use your trunk and you'd rather have it opening into free space instead of another vehicle or a wall.
      - kstrauser 5mo ago
        I contend it does. People tend to take way more time backing into a space than pulling into it, and hardly more time backing out of a space than pulling forward out of it. I'm certain this isn't how they think of it, but when I see someone blocking traffic while they painfully back into a spot, I imagine them imagining themselves having to fly out of there without a moment to spare, like they plan on having a drastic emergency before they leave. And if that person isn't driving a police or fire department car or the like, I roll my eyes at the delusion of grandeur.
        djhn 5mo ago
        Surely a big part of the reason is steering leverage relative to the kerb. You are able to one-shot reverse parallel park into a much narrower gap without hitting the bumpers of the cars around you or getting onto the pavement.
    - antonvs 5mo ago
      I always wonder why people do this. What’s the reasoning?
      - smackeyacky 5mo ago
        I wonder this too. It’s much harder to back into a cramped parking space than backing out into an open space. So they do it very slowly. Watching people do this is frustrating.
        robrtsql 5mo ago
        They would rather back into a parking spot surrounded by stationary obstacles than back into a parking lot or road which may contain pedestrians or other drivers. I'm not saying _I_ back into spaces. I generally drive into spots and reverse out of them. However, I admit that what I do is a tradeoff where I take on risk in order to have a mechanically easier time entering and exiting the space.
        lostmsu 5mo ago
        This makes no sense. In either case the car traverses the same space once forwards and once backwards.
        pegasus 5mo ago
        That's true, but what GP is saying is that when you're pulling out, you are traversing the part of the space overwhelmingly more likely to contain passing pedestrians and vehicles with full visibility. And then some parking spots require parallel parking which is best done via backing up anyway.
        lostmsu 5mo ago
        I don't think you understood what my comment says. The whole point is that it covers your "but".
        5mo ago
    - linsomniac 5mo ago
      In my cars, generally, yes. The Lexus in question is my MIL's car, and she prefers it parked at home nose-in. We were also running some errands that required access to the rear (groceries, returning a printer/fax machine).
  - za3faran 5mo ago
    Can you elaborate more on why it takes a long time to be ready to drive away in reverse? How long are you talking?
    - linsomniac 5mo ago
      I didn't time it but I'd put it at 30 seconds. It sits there for a while with the infotainment screen black, then it does this animated splash screen, then it loads the infotainment/cameras.
- kstrauser 5mo ago
  Side note: to a rounding error, all modern cars can be safely driven right away. Wait a few seconds for the sound of the engine to change, indicating that oil is now happily pumping through all the grindy bits, and then you're ready to go. I'm not saying you want to drag race your neighbor 10 seconds after starting the engine for the first time that day, but once you don't hear the tappets being tappety, it's OK to pull out of your driveway and start moving at a sane pace.
  - rurban 5mo ago
    > indicating that oil is now happily pumping through all the grindy bits That's not a modern car. Modern cars do not pump oil through all the grindy bits. Modern cars need to wait for the BMC to stabilize its power.
- pjmlp 5mo ago
  Depending on the planet region, and season, you might actually have to wait before driving. Frozen Winters, heavy snow, diesel pumps,....
wiseowise 5mo ago
> because waiting for the car to warm up takes a few minutes. If only it was this. Usually the car transmission breaks, there are random engine shutdowns, and after restart the car just doesn't function anymore. And when it actually does start, it moves so slow and consumes so much fuel that I can't justify using it. That's my experience with JetBrains IDEs.
xigoi 5mo ago
If a text editor is a car, an IDE is an airplane. You can get to more places with it, but you need a lot of space and time to even start moving and then it consumes a ridiculous amount of fuel.
- j_w 5mo ago
  Horrible analogy. You can't "get to more places" with an airplane. An airplane can only go to very limited number of locations compared to a car.
  - xigoi 5mo ago
    That actually makes it a great analogy. An IDE allows you to make common edits like renaming a variable, just as an airplane gets you to any big city. But when you need to make an uncommon edit, it’s better to reach for Vim – just like you need a car to get to some random place in the middle of woods.
    - j_w 5mo ago
      This comment is so absurd I'm struggling to reply. A car takes you to an "uncommon place in the woods?" Taking a plane is a "common edit?" For the majority of people a car would be the "common" usage and a plane would be the "uncommon" usage. Unless you're a billionaire taking your private jet between runways to then hop on a helicopter for the rest of your trip. It's a terrible analogy.

usef- 5mo ago

Exhausting the CPU and memory? I'm genuinely curious how he gets such a different experience to me. Startup is definitely slower than vim though, but it's something that happens only once for me, then it stays open all day (unlike vim which I close and open repeatedly)

onehair 5mo ago

One can always use multiple editors for what they do besg. Zed, helix, nvim for small files in gui or terminal. A solid Slow start IDE for solid extended time work