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Adobe needs to be next. I had to cancel a card because that was easier than cancelling Creative Cloud.

by whh 4mo ago

sanswork 4mo ago
Adobe isn't hard to cancel if you sign up for monthly subscriptions. I do it fairly regularly because I need PS in short bursts. A lot of people sign up for discounted annual commitments though then complain when they can't cancel before the year is up.
- IneffablePigeon 4mo ago
  I had been paying monthly for 13 years straight and they still demanded a cancellation fee because it turned out I was on an annual commitment (which by the way they hiked the price of by 50% with a month’s notice and by the time you notice the larger payment go out you are in a whole new 12 months). So yes, I complained about that.
  - sanswork 4mo ago
    Ok so you were on an annual plan to save money and when you cancelled you had to pay an exit fee to account for the annual discount. Seems reasonable to me. They gave you a months notice of the price increase and you didn't cancel until after it went into effect?
    - hartator 4mo ago
      Shouldn’t auto renew and auto commit though.
      - sanswork 4mo ago
        Why? It's a subscription auto-renew is the default. As for auto-commit why would they change your subscription choices on you without you choosing it?
        DangitBobby 4mo ago
        Because it's not the price you agreed on? Crazy what you people are willing to accept as normal.
        sanswork 4mo ago
        The notification is telling you of the new price. If you don't do anything at that point then it is the price you agreed on.
        DangitBobby 4mo ago
        Not how agreements work.
        HDBaseT 4mo ago
        What happens if Adobe changes the price from $299 yearly to 29k? Do you think that is fair? After all they gave you 30 days!
        sanswork 4mo ago
        Why do you feel the need to make up ridiculous numbers?
        Marsymars 4mo ago
        > It's a subscription auto-renew is the default. There are a number of subscriptions where I regularly want only a single month of service at a time.
        sanswork 4mo ago
        Then cancel your subscription before its over? I'm not seeing what the problem is here.
    - DangitBobby 4mo ago
      Why are you defending obvious theft?
      - koolba 4mo ago
        > Why are you defending obvious theft? Where’s the theft? It’s perfectly normal to have a fee for breaking a lease. And that’s what an annual subscription paid monthly is anyway. It’s a commitment for an extended period of time. If you could just stop paying and retain the discounted rate, what is an annual subscription vs a monthly one?
        DangitBobby 4mo ago
        Is upping the fee and automatically confirming the contract without a re-up "perfectly normal"? Seems doubtful.
        anomaly_ 4mo ago
        Yes? Commercial leases (and residential for that matter) commonly have increase clauses that operate automatically (CPI, 3/4/5%, market review, etc).
        DangitBobby 4mo ago
        Varies by jurisdiction. Residential leases typically require notice, and inedequate notice (both by time and by method) nullifies the agreement. This is because the legal world generally agrees that contracts that would expose consumers with practically zero legal access or knowledge to one-sided contracts providing one party unilateral control would be unconscionable. Even if it were technically legal it should distress you.
      - whyenot 4mo ago
        Because it is not obviously theft. If you are getting a discount for making a year-long commitment, and then cancel, breaking that commitment, isn't a cancelation fee appropriate?
    - HDBaseT 4mo ago
      An annual plan shouldn't require a termination fee. If I purchase an Annual Subscription, I should be able to cancel it whenever, with no fee whilst retaining the benefits for my subscription, as I paid for a whole year up front anyways.... Adobe software being a subscription service is nonsense too, but thats for another discussion.
      - sanswork 4mo ago
        Yes, and if you get an annual plan from adobe and pay up front there is no fee for cancelling. The fee is if you get an annual plan with a monthly payment and cancel early. I remember when it was like $600 for photoshop for a single version(like 25 years ago so what would that be today?). The subscription pricing is a steal.
        HDBaseT 4mo ago
        If the subscription pricing was a "steal" and the perpetual licensing was genuinely more expensive and worse, they'd still offer the perpetual licensing. Instead they killed it, they clearly do not want to cannibalize their subscription offing. It clearly makes them more money. Your first point is valid, I was misunderstanding the yearly subscription pricing, they offer an upfront payment as well as a monthly (but with year commitment). I believe still however, if you pay for a year, cancel, you still get access cut off. Which is absurd.
        sanswork 4mo ago
        The subscription pricing makes it more accessible to consumers where as previously the only people that paid for licenses were companies(and probably only large companies given it was basically always the most popular warez). So they charge less per release but they dramatically increase the possible consumer base and release lumpy revenue based around semi-regular annual releases with constant cash flow. So on a per user basis it is without a doubt cheaper but overall they can still make a lot more money. >I believe still however, if you pay for a year, cancel, you still get access cut off. Which is absurd. I've not seen anyone claiming this actually happened but maybe I just missed them? Everyone I've seen has said the opposite.
    - m463 4mo ago
      Take a step back and think of the company who designed this machiavellian scheme and generated this dramatic situation... is this a business relationship with trust and maturity?
      - sanswork 4mo ago
        "We will give you access to annual pricing discounts but not require you to pay the full year up front" It's not complex or dramatic.
        m463 4mo ago
        "you pay what you use"
- cryzinger 4mo ago
  If you only need PS in short bursts, may I recommend https://www.photopea.com/ https://www.photopea.com/? It's not at 100% feature parity with PS but it's pretty darn close.
  - sanswork 4mo ago
    Appreciate the suggestion but I'm terrible at editing so I just stick with PS because the cost for a month or two when I need it isn't much and it's really easy to find videos walking through exactly what I need to do. Even a single hour spent trying to translate a tutorial would more than wipe out the savings.
    - cryzinger 4mo ago
      Totally fair, I understand :)
- chatmasta 4mo ago
  No, the complaint with Adobe is that if you cancel, they terminate access immediately rather than at the end of the billing period. There is no explanation for this other than a predatory one; they’re betting you’ll forget to cancel by the time your bill comes around. The immediate termination is effectively depriving you of the next N months of access for which you already paid.
  - supern0va 4mo ago
    >No, the complaint with Adobe is that if you cancel, they terminate access immediately rather than at the end of the billing period. There is no explanation for this other than a predatory one This is exactly what Shutterstock does. What's maddening is that you can be getting a monthly charge, but are locked into a year contract. If you cancel, they'll continue to charge monthly but without being able to use the service. It's absurd.
  - sanswork 4mo ago
    This isn't true though. Again like with the annual plan people are confusing things. I just looked it up and checked a few reddit posts to confirm and heres what's happening. If you cancel in the first 14 days they terminate immediately and refund you. After the 14 days the subscription is cancelled and you keep access until the point you paid for. If you signed up for an annual contract you have a cancel fee of 50% of the remaining agreed amount.
    - like_any_other 4mo ago
      Maybe now, after they had to pay a $150M fine for using dark patterns and making unsubscribing difficult: https://www.gadgetreview.com/adobe-pays-150m-to-settle-subscription-dark-pattern-lawsuit https://www.gadgetreview.com/adobe-pays-150m-to-settle-subsc... They did a lot more than just making it hard to cancel, too: https://www.deceptive.design/brands/adobe https://www.deceptive.design/brands/adobe
      - sanswork 4mo ago
        Your deceptive design link is literally outlining the plan discussed in the rest of this thread. The first one in your deceptive design was: Adobe: Unclear yearly subscription terms and cancellation fees "Apparently monthly subscriptions, but you are signed up for a year. Cancelling early results in a 50% of remaining months subscriptions being applied as a cancellation charge." Then you click through to look at it and the button the user selects says Annual, Paid Monthly Fee applies if you cancel after 14 days With an information popup. Scrolling through the rest all of it is them just selecting this option without reading the details then being upset when the Annual plan is an annual plan. I have no clue why they decided to settle that lawsuit since they still have the same plan. I'm not a lawyer.
nih567 4mo ago
I hope freelancer.com will be the next one. I canceled and renewed my credit card because of them. Even though I deleted my account, they continued to withdraw money.
x86hacker1010 4mo ago
Don’t they charge you to cancel or something? I also remember their suite being absolutely fucking dumb I never used it again
- sanswork 4mo ago
  They let you sign up for an annual discount but still pay monthly. The cancelation fee is if you try to end the annual commitment early. If you just sign up monthly(seriously always do this when you see these offers) there is no cancellation fee.
charcircuit 4mo ago
Canceling a card isn't the same thing as canceling a subscription. Most businesses will have you still pay via a different payment method to resolve your debt.
- dheera 4mo ago
  They'll invoice you but don't actually pay. They aren't going to take you to court over a $50/month subscription; the easier route for them is to just disable your account, which is what you wanted anyway. Never give them your actual residential address (they don't need to know it), birth day, or SSN, or be tricked into giving them such. If they ask on any customer service chat or phone, the answer is they don't need to know it. Without these things they can't exactly put it on your credit report, either. They may send it to collectors, but don't talk to them. Let them cry. They still won't serve you a court summons over $50. Keep businesses in check from this money-grabbing behavior. Any kind of subscription should be easily cancellable.
  - charcircuit 4mo ago
    What you are describing is fraud.
    - paulddraper 4mo ago
      From which party?
      - charcircuit 4mo ago
        The customer lying about their information to intentionally bypass companies' anti fraud systems.
        GreenVulpine 4mo ago
        Bullshit, it's perfectly fine and legal to refuse to give companies your address or SSN.
hank9 4mo ago
Figma isn't much better these days
level09 4mo ago
+1. They doubled my fee, treated silence as consent for a yearly renewal, then tried to charge a cancellation fee based on that inflated price. Daylight robbery.

Adobe needs to be next. I had to cancel a card because that was easier than cancelling Creative Cloud.

by whh 4mo ago

Adobe needs to be next. I had to cancel a card because that was easier than cancelling Creative Cloud.

Adobe isn't hard to cancel if you sign up for monthly subscriptions. I do it fairly regularly because I need PS in short bursts. A lot of people sign up for discounted annual commitments though then complain when they can't cancel before the year is up.

IneffablePigeon 4mo ago
I had been paying monthly for 13 years straight and they still demanded a cancellation fee because it turned out I was on an annual commitment (which by the way they hiked the price of by 50% with a month’s notice and by the time you notice the larger payment go out you are in a whole new 12 months). So yes, I complained about that.
- sanswork 4mo ago
  Ok so you were on an annual plan to save money and when you cancelled you had to pay an exit fee to account for the annual discount. Seems reasonable to me. They gave you a months notice of the price increase and you didn't cancel until after it went into effect?
  - hartator 4mo ago
    Shouldn’t auto renew and auto commit though.
    - sanswork 4mo ago
      Why? It's a subscription auto-renew is the default. As for auto-commit why would they change your subscription choices on you without you choosing it?
      - DangitBobby 4mo ago
        Because it's not the price you agreed on? Crazy what you people are willing to accept as normal.
        sanswork 4mo ago
        The notification is telling you of the new price. If you don't do anything at that point then it is the price you agreed on.
        DangitBobby 4mo ago
        Not how agreements work.
      - HDBaseT 4mo ago
        What happens if Adobe changes the price from $299 yearly to 29k? Do you think that is fair? After all they gave you 30 days!
        sanswork 4mo ago
        Why do you feel the need to make up ridiculous numbers?
      - Marsymars 4mo ago
        > It's a subscription auto-renew is the default. There are a number of subscriptions where I regularly want only a single month of service at a time.
        sanswork 4mo ago
        Then cancel your subscription before its over? I'm not seeing what the problem is here.
  - DangitBobby 4mo ago
    Why are you defending obvious theft?
    - koolba 4mo ago
      > Why are you defending obvious theft? Where’s the theft? It’s perfectly normal to have a fee for breaking a lease. And that’s what an annual subscription paid monthly is anyway. It’s a commitment for an extended period of time. If you could just stop paying and retain the discounted rate, what is an annual subscription vs a monthly one?
      - DangitBobby 4mo ago
        Is upping the fee and automatically confirming the contract without a re-up "perfectly normal"? Seems doubtful.
        anomaly_ 4mo ago
        Yes? Commercial leases (and residential for that matter) commonly have increase clauses that operate automatically (CPI, 3/4/5%, market review, etc).
        DangitBobby 4mo ago
        Varies by jurisdiction. Residential leases typically require notice, and inedequate notice (both by time and by method) nullifies the agreement. This is because the legal world generally agrees that contracts that would expose consumers with practically zero legal access or knowledge to one-sided contracts providing one party unilateral control would be unconscionable. Even if it were technically legal it should distress you.
    - whyenot 4mo ago
      Because it is not obviously theft. If you are getting a discount for making a year-long commitment, and then cancel, breaking that commitment, isn't a cancelation fee appropriate?
  - HDBaseT 4mo ago
    An annual plan shouldn't require a termination fee. If I purchase an Annual Subscription, I should be able to cancel it whenever, with no fee whilst retaining the benefits for my subscription, as I paid for a whole year up front anyways.... Adobe software being a subscription service is nonsense too, but thats for another discussion.
    - sanswork 4mo ago
      Yes, and if you get an annual plan from adobe and pay up front there is no fee for cancelling. The fee is if you get an annual plan with a monthly payment and cancel early. I remember when it was like $600 for photoshop for a single version(like 25 years ago so what would that be today?). The subscription pricing is a steal.
      - HDBaseT 4mo ago
        If the subscription pricing was a "steal" and the perpetual licensing was genuinely more expensive and worse, they'd still offer the perpetual licensing. Instead they killed it, they clearly do not want to cannibalize their subscription offing. It clearly makes them more money. Your first point is valid, I was misunderstanding the yearly subscription pricing, they offer an upfront payment as well as a monthly (but with year commitment). I believe still however, if you pay for a year, cancel, you still get access cut off. Which is absurd.
        sanswork 4mo ago
        The subscription pricing makes it more accessible to consumers where as previously the only people that paid for licenses were companies(and probably only large companies given it was basically always the most popular warez). So they charge less per release but they dramatically increase the possible consumer base and release lumpy revenue based around semi-regular annual releases with constant cash flow. So on a per user basis it is without a doubt cheaper but overall they can still make a lot more money. >I believe still however, if you pay for a year, cancel, you still get access cut off. Which is absurd. I've not seen anyone claiming this actually happened but maybe I just missed them? Everyone I've seen has said the opposite.
  - m463 4mo ago
    Take a step back and think of the company who designed this machiavellian scheme and generated this dramatic situation... is this a business relationship with trust and maturity?
    - sanswork 4mo ago
      "We will give you access to annual pricing discounts but not require you to pay the full year up front" It's not complex or dramatic.
      - m463 4mo ago
        "you pay what you use"
cryzinger 4mo ago
If you only need PS in short bursts, may I recommend https://www.photopea.com/ https://www.photopea.com/? It's not at 100% feature parity with PS but it's pretty darn close.
- sanswork 4mo ago
  Appreciate the suggestion but I'm terrible at editing so I just stick with PS because the cost for a month or two when I need it isn't much and it's really easy to find videos walking through exactly what I need to do. Even a single hour spent trying to translate a tutorial would more than wipe out the savings.
  - cryzinger 4mo ago
    Totally fair, I understand :)
chatmasta 4mo ago
No, the complaint with Adobe is that if you cancel, they terminate access immediately rather than at the end of the billing period. There is no explanation for this other than a predatory one; they’re betting you’ll forget to cancel by the time your bill comes around. The immediate termination is effectively depriving you of the next N months of access for which you already paid.
- supern0va 4mo ago
  >No, the complaint with Adobe is that if you cancel, they terminate access immediately rather than at the end of the billing period. There is no explanation for this other than a predatory one This is exactly what Shutterstock does. What's maddening is that you can be getting a monthly charge, but are locked into a year contract. If you cancel, they'll continue to charge monthly but without being able to use the service. It's absurd.
- sanswork 4mo ago
  This isn't true though. Again like with the annual plan people are confusing things. I just looked it up and checked a few reddit posts to confirm and heres what's happening. If you cancel in the first 14 days they terminate immediately and refund you. After the 14 days the subscription is cancelled and you keep access until the point you paid for. If you signed up for an annual contract you have a cancel fee of 50% of the remaining agreed amount.
  - like_any_other 4mo ago
    Maybe now, after they had to pay a $150M fine for using dark patterns and making unsubscribing difficult: https://www.gadgetreview.com/adobe-pays-150m-to-settle-subscription-dark-pattern-lawsuit https://www.gadgetreview.com/adobe-pays-150m-to-settle-subsc... They did a lot more than just making it hard to cancel, too: https://www.deceptive.design/brands/adobe https://www.deceptive.design/brands/adobe
    - sanswork 4mo ago
      Your deceptive design link is literally outlining the plan discussed in the rest of this thread. The first one in your deceptive design was: Adobe: Unclear yearly subscription terms and cancellation fees "Apparently monthly subscriptions, but you are signed up for a year. Cancelling early results in a 50% of remaining months subscriptions being applied as a cancellation charge." Then you click through to look at it and the button the user selects says Annual, Paid Monthly Fee applies if you cancel after 14 days With an information popup. Scrolling through the rest all of it is them just selecting this option without reading the details then being upset when the Annual plan is an annual plan. I have no clue why they decided to settle that lawsuit since they still have the same plan. I'm not a lawyer.

nih567 4mo ago

I hope freelancer.com will be the next one. I canceled and renewed my credit card because of them. Even though I deleted my account, they continued to withdraw money.

x86hacker1010 4mo ago

Don’t they charge you to cancel or something? I also remember their suite being absolutely fucking dumb I never used it again

sanswork 4mo ago
They let you sign up for an annual discount but still pay monthly. The cancelation fee is if you try to end the annual commitment early. If you just sign up monthly(seriously always do this when you see these offers) there is no cancellation fee.

charcircuit 4mo ago

Canceling a card isn't the same thing as canceling a subscription. Most businesses will have you still pay via a different payment method to resolve your debt.

dheera 4mo ago
They'll invoice you but don't actually pay. They aren't going to take you to court over a $50/month subscription; the easier route for them is to just disable your account, which is what you wanted anyway. Never give them your actual residential address (they don't need to know it), birth day, or SSN, or be tricked into giving them such. If they ask on any customer service chat or phone, the answer is they don't need to know it. Without these things they can't exactly put it on your credit report, either. They may send it to collectors, but don't talk to them. Let them cry. They still won't serve you a court summons over $50. Keep businesses in check from this money-grabbing behavior. Any kind of subscription should be easily cancellable.
- charcircuit 4mo ago
  What you are describing is fraud.
  - paulddraper 4mo ago
    From which party?
    - charcircuit 4mo ago
      The customer lying about their information to intentionally bypass companies' anti fraud systems.
      - GreenVulpine 4mo ago
        Bullshit, it's perfectly fine and legal to refuse to give companies your address or SSN.

hank9 4mo ago

Figma isn't much better these days

level09 4mo ago

+1. They doubled my fee, treated silence as consent for a yearly renewal, then tried to charge a cancellation fee based on that inflated price. Daylight robbery.