3 ms·

Top 10% is the upper middle class, not the ultra rich. A successful surgeon making $1M per year is paying well over 40% a year in taxes, while Bezos is paying

Top 10% is the upper middle class, not the ultra rich. A successful surgeon making $1M per year is paying well over 40% a year in taxes, while Bezos is paying 1%.

giantg2 6mo ago
Do you have the data for that? I was wondering about tax paid (as dollars not effective rate- I know effective tends to me lower for HNW individuals due to accountants and other financial professionals they can afford).
- sbarre 6mo ago
  > I thought looking at the aggregates that the top 10% pay something like 1/3rd of all income/cap gain taxes. If we're bringing receipts, how about you start? Do you have the data for this initial statement of yours?
  - giantg2 6mo ago
    This is close enough (posted here by another). https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48185123 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48185123
  - Jblx2 6mo ago
    Here is one source (with 2022 data): https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/federal/latest-federal-income-tax-data-2025/ https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/federal/latest-federal-in... - The top 1% of income earners pay 40.4% of the total U.S. Federal Income Tax receipts - Top 5% pays 61.0% - Top 10% pays 72.0% - Top 25% pays 87.2% - Top 50% pays 97.0% ...of course that doesn't include payroll taxes (Social Security).
    - WarmWash 6mo ago
      Please delete this comment before it bankrupts half of click-bait driven media outlets.
    - wat10000 6mo ago
      Focusing on a single tax is silly. We should look at all taxes paid across all levels of government. Federal income tax is one of the most progressive taxes out there, so of course that's what people focus on when they want to make the point that wealthy people are being sacrificed to the altar of taxation. If you look at all taxes, the share paid is remarkably close to the share earned. According to https://itep.org/who-pays-taxes-in-america-in-2024/ https://itep.org/who-pays-taxes-in-america-in-2024/, in 2024, the top 1% earned 20.1% of income while paying 23.9% of taxes. The bottom 20% paid 1.5% of taxes while earning 2.6% of income.
      - giantg2 6mo ago
        This seems to show the same gradation but with less magnitude. Was there some other point you were making?
        wat10000 6mo ago
        It’s way less, is the point. Top earners pay just a little more than their share of income. The tax system as a whole is nearly flat.
      - zeroonetwothree 6mo ago
        How do I sign up for this magical 25% “effective tax rate”? Last year mine was 46% and that’s only counting income tax (state + federal).
        wat10000 5mo ago
        By being somewhere around the 40th percentile of income, according to that link.
      - kube-system 5mo ago
        > in 2024, the top 1% earned 20.1% of income while paying 23.9% of taxes. Within that group, the share is not evenly distributed, though. Most who are in the 1% club are people who are earning wage income, like doctors, and are getting absolutely reamed with taxes. The vast majority of the 1% are not rich enough to be doing elaborate schemes to avoid taxes. Billionaires, who are in the top 0.0002%, are an entirely whole different story. There are many figures that show they generally do not pay their fair share in taxes.
    - kube-system 6mo ago
      And for reference, here's what kind of incomes those percentiles are: Top 50%: $53k/year Top 25%: $93k/year Top 10%: $155k/year Top 5%: $210k/year Top 1%: $450k/year
      - Garlef 6mo ago
        I think these numbers are not suited to say anything substantial about the position of ultra rich people in society.
        kube-system 5mo ago
        I agree which was why I included the context.
WarmWash 6mo ago
Bezos pays 40% too. His assets are not income. Just like your assets are not taxed. Ok, but he does that loan-against-assets hack! Well the fact is that those loans eventually need to be paid, so at some point he will pay that 40% (unless he does the step-up basis hack when he dies) Ok, but he should be paying annually like everyone else! Well, technically he is, his assets, the company Amazon, pays a lot of taxes annually. The government views Amazon as a money printer, states get their sales taxes, and the federal government gets their income taxes. All of which originate with Amazon. All of which is to say, that the uppe-middle/upper-class, the successful surgeon, is the one that needs to be paying more taxes to equilibriate society.
- bryanlarsen 6mo ago
  > unless he does the step-up basis hack when he dies I'm sure we can count that as a given. > The government views Amazon as a money printer, states get their sales taxes, and the federal government gets their income taxes. Except when states fall all over themselves to give Amazon a massive tax break to build their second HQ.
  - WarmWash 6mo ago
    >I'm sure we can count that as a given. It's very unlikely, he has pledged to give away most of his wealth in his lifetime, but there are a variety of factors that will always add space for detractors to make fair points. Bill Gates is still worth billions despite being an endless waterfall of charity money for decades. Either way, the step-up thing is way way way more common in the upper class, where people with ~$24M want their kids to get $6M each. These people are nobodies with no public image, and light years away from "Billionaire Class" status. >Except when states fall all over themselves to give Amazon a massive tax break to build their second HQ. All the employees will pay income tax, and they will mostly spend their money in the state, generating sales tax. Then there is the second order effect of businesses that pop-up to feed off the money that the employees make. What's often missed, and never explained, is that the government loves businesses, because businesses convert people into tax revenue, on almost all levels. Don't miss that.
kube-system 6mo ago
The top 10% is not even upper middle class in high COL areas. $155k is a top 10% income.

Top 10% is the upper middle class, not the ultra rich. A successful surgeon making $1M per year is paying well over 40% a year in taxes, while Bezos is paying 1%.

giantg2 6mo ago

Do you have the data for that? I was wondering about tax paid (as dollars not effective rate- I know effective tends to me lower for HNW individuals due to accountants and other financial professionals they can afford).

sbarre 6mo ago
> I thought looking at the aggregates that the top 10% pay something like 1/3rd of all income/cap gain taxes. If we're bringing receipts, how about you start? Do you have the data for this initial statement of yours?
- giantg2 6mo ago
  This is close enough (posted here by another). https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48185123 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48185123
- Jblx2 6mo ago
  Here is one source (with 2022 data): https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/federal/latest-federal-income-tax-data-2025/ https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/federal/latest-federal-in... - The top 1% of income earners pay 40.4% of the total U.S. Federal Income Tax receipts - Top 5% pays 61.0% - Top 10% pays 72.0% - Top 25% pays 87.2% - Top 50% pays 97.0% ...of course that doesn't include payroll taxes (Social Security).
  - WarmWash 6mo ago
    Please delete this comment before it bankrupts half of click-bait driven media outlets.
  - wat10000 6mo ago
    Focusing on a single tax is silly. We should look at all taxes paid across all levels of government. Federal income tax is one of the most progressive taxes out there, so of course that's what people focus on when they want to make the point that wealthy people are being sacrificed to the altar of taxation. If you look at all taxes, the share paid is remarkably close to the share earned. According to https://itep.org/who-pays-taxes-in-america-in-2024/ https://itep.org/who-pays-taxes-in-america-in-2024/, in 2024, the top 1% earned 20.1% of income while paying 23.9% of taxes. The bottom 20% paid 1.5% of taxes while earning 2.6% of income.
    - giantg2 6mo ago
      This seems to show the same gradation but with less magnitude. Was there some other point you were making?
      - wat10000 6mo ago
        It’s way less, is the point. Top earners pay just a little more than their share of income. The tax system as a whole is nearly flat.
    - zeroonetwothree 6mo ago
      How do I sign up for this magical 25% “effective tax rate”? Last year mine was 46% and that’s only counting income tax (state + federal).
      - wat10000 5mo ago
        By being somewhere around the 40th percentile of income, according to that link.
    - kube-system 5mo ago
      > in 2024, the top 1% earned 20.1% of income while paying 23.9% of taxes. Within that group, the share is not evenly distributed, though. Most who are in the 1% club are people who are earning wage income, like doctors, and are getting absolutely reamed with taxes. The vast majority of the 1% are not rich enough to be doing elaborate schemes to avoid taxes. Billionaires, who are in the top 0.0002%, are an entirely whole different story. There are many figures that show they generally do not pay their fair share in taxes.
  - kube-system 6mo ago
    And for reference, here's what kind of incomes those percentiles are: Top 50%: $53k/year Top 25%: $93k/year Top 10%: $155k/year Top 5%: $210k/year Top 1%: $450k/year
    - Garlef 6mo ago
      I think these numbers are not suited to say anything substantial about the position of ultra rich people in society.
      - kube-system 5mo ago
        I agree which was why I included the context.

WarmWash 6mo ago

Bezos pays 40% too. His assets are not income. Just like your assets are not taxed. Ok, but he does that loan-against-assets hack! Well the fact is that those loans eventually need to be paid, so at some point he will pay that 40% (unless he does the step-up basis hack when he dies) Ok, but he should be paying annually like everyone else! Well, technically he is, his assets, the company Amazon, pays a lot of taxes annually. The government views Amazon as a money printer, states get their sales taxes, and the federal government gets their income taxes. All of which originate with Amazon. All of which is to say, that the uppe-middle/upper-class, the successful surgeon, is the one that needs to be paying more taxes to equilibriate society.

bryanlarsen 6mo ago
> unless he does the step-up basis hack when he dies I'm sure we can count that as a given. > The government views Amazon as a money printer, states get their sales taxes, and the federal government gets their income taxes. Except when states fall all over themselves to give Amazon a massive tax break to build their second HQ.
- WarmWash 6mo ago
  >I'm sure we can count that as a given. It's very unlikely, he has pledged to give away most of his wealth in his lifetime, but there are a variety of factors that will always add space for detractors to make fair points. Bill Gates is still worth billions despite being an endless waterfall of charity money for decades. Either way, the step-up thing is way way way more common in the upper class, where people with ~$24M want their kids to get $6M each. These people are nobodies with no public image, and light years away from "Billionaire Class" status. >Except when states fall all over themselves to give Amazon a massive tax break to build their second HQ. All the employees will pay income tax, and they will mostly spend their money in the state, generating sales tax. Then there is the second order effect of businesses that pop-up to feed off the money that the employees make. What's often missed, and never explained, is that the government loves businesses, because businesses convert people into tax revenue, on almost all levels. Don't miss that.

kube-system 6mo ago

The top 10% is not even upper middle class in high COL areas. $155k is a top 10% income.