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Reached for comment by TechCrunch, Musk’s lead counsel Marc Toberoff said, “One word: Appeal.” One wonders on what grounds? In the UK, in a civil case like th
by 2b3a51 5mo ago
Reached for comment by TechCrunch, Musk’s lead counsel Marc Toberoff said, “One word: Appeal.”
One wonders on what grounds?
In the UK, in a civil case like this, the judge I think comments on the likelihood of an appeal avenue once the verdict has been reached.
- Legend2440 5mo agoOn the grounds of "I have infinite money and lawyers to drag this thing out forever, whether I'll win or not."
- 2b3a51 5mo agoNothing like 'vexatious litigation' in the US? https://www.gov.uk/guidance/vexatious-litigants https://www.gov.uk/guidance/vexatious-litigants
- Legend2440 5mo agoThere is, but it's a pretty high bar to clear. Merely exhausting one's appeals does not qualify as vexatious. He could keep going for years as long as his lawyers make vaguely plausible arguments each time.
- adastra22 5mo agoYou are allowed your appeals. That's part of your constitutional right to due process. There are some exceptions to this, but they are rare and usually only employed in extreme situations (aka things which would get the lawyers involved debarred).
- SuddsMcDuff 5mo agoMuddying the right of appeal with vexatious litigation is a very dark road to go down. I'm sure people in the US are in no mood to take any advice from us here in the UK, having just recently abolished the right to a jury trial.
- ryandrake 5mo agoTo be fair, is there any corporation or high net worth individual ever who, after losing a lawsuit, said “You know what, we accept the court’s decision that we were wrong and will be reflecting on how to do better in the future.” Never. That never ever happens.
- londons_explore 5mo agoThe lawyer himself is guaranteed another 6 months of lucrative work of they appeal... Whereas no appeal is effectively him getting fired.
- Traster 5mo agoIs this the right view? I would imagine Elon Musk has essentially infinite demand for lawyers. The choice for the lawyers is probably work on this absolutely dead case where all the facts are not just against them, but highly embarrassing for their principal, or work on some other case where there would be perks like having the possibility of winning the case. I'm quite certain highly trained, highly successful, expensive lawyers aren't jumping up and down in excitement to work on cases they quite well know are meritless. They'll do it, because that's what Elon Musk wants them to do and he's paying them and they want his other business, but this isn't what gets them up in the morning.
- ryandrake 5mo agoI think it’s just that you can make an entire career (and a shitload of money) by simply being in Musk’s (and other rich people’s) orbit. From handling his lawsuits all the way down to cooking his food. He is an infinite River of money and you just dip your spoon in a little.
- duskwuff 5mo ago> One wonders on what grounds? Invent a time machine; send a lawyer back to file a new lawsuit within the statute of limitations.
- artninja1988 5mo agoTo any lawyers in here, is there an argument to be made for the statue of limitations not to apply here
- gamblor956 5mo agoNo. Once the jury made its finding of fact as to when the event giving rise to the claim occurred (and to when the SOL clock would start ticking), the appeal would have to determine that the jury could not have reasonably made such a finding. It's very, very rare for an appeals court to overturn a finding of fact.
- dnnddidiej 5mo agoOut interest how does it work with new evidence then? I guess in civil less likely than criminal (new DNA technology etc.)
- adastra22 5mo agoWhat new evidence would overturn the fact that there was more than 3 years between the relevant events?
- gamblor956 5mo agoNew evidence is usually irrelevant, except in the very narrow circumstance where the statute of limitations is based on a "knew or should have known" moment instead of a "when the incident occurred" moment. (In this context, meaning the first time the plaintiff actually knew, or reasonably should have known, about the incident for which they are suing. Some torts allow for this, most don't.) The was actually what was at issue here. The inciting incident was way past the statute of limitations on an occurrence basis (years late), but Elon was attempting to claim that there was "new evidence" to reset the start of the clock. He failed, because there was substantial evidence that he knew about the stuff he was suing over when it originally happened. Honestly surprised he wasn't held in contempt for perjury.
- pixl97 5mo agoTypically if they bring up a case like this a judge again will get pissy and dismiss it with prejudice. You can try to file it again, but that gets to the point where the judge can throw your ass directly in jail for 30 days, do not pass go, do not collect 200 dollars.
- AnimalMuppet 5mo agoFiling the same lawsuit a second time is different. They're talking about appealing the decision in this case. You don't get tossed in jail for that. But (at least in the US), the appeals court does not have to accept your appeal. When you file the appeal, you have to give them enough reason for them to even listen to your appeal, instead of rejecting it from the first filing.
- colechristensen 5mo agoHe lost on the grounds of a statue of limitations defense which is exactly the kind of thing which is easily appealable.
- qyph 5mo agoAre you a lawyer? IANAL but my understanding is it would be difficult for an appeal to succeed. Appeals courts only evaluate review matters of law, not of fact. Whether is has been more than the 3 year limit the statute of limitations places is a matter of fact I think. And the advisory jury makes this much harder to appeal. What do you think the grounds for appeal will be?
- colechristensen 5mo agoI'm not saying it will succeed, but what counts as having passed the statue of limitations and various workarounds and modifications of the time period particularly in cases like this where the acts in question weren't necessarily a single event but progressive activity is the kind of question which is the bread and butter of an appeals court.
- turtlesdown11 5mo ago> particularly in cases like this where the acts in question weren't necessarily a single event but progressive activity is the kind of question which is the bread and butter of an appeals court. No, findings of disputed fact - like when Musk had reason to know of his injury, are determined by a jury (or a bench judge). Appeals courts examine whether the law was applied correctly, not what the jury's fact finding was. There may be an avenue of appeal that the jury was improperly instructed, but determining questions of fact are exactly -not- the bread and butter of an appeals court.
- enraged_camel 5mo agoPretty sure it's the opposite: appeals mostly only work when the decision is not clear cut, and the statute of limitations is.
- 5mo ago
- shdh 5mo agoTwo words: “billable hours”