3 ms·

This just reeks of dumb. Seriously guys, support 64 bit platforms or perish.

by bifrost 14y ago

shawn-butler 14y ago
Have you noticed any tangible benefit to using a 64-bit build over a 32-bit one? Performance of the current x64 builds as measured by responsiveness and javascript benchmarks is about on-par with the 32-bit version for most things; the performance and even compilation of plugins is however another matter entirely and the reason for using Firefox for me over another solution is almost always the plugins available. I have been using PaleMoon builds and from what I gather the source tree is not being tombstoned, just the nightly builds. [0] The reasons given for crashes (driver/component out-of-tree bugs) make sense but I'm not really involved in the development or testing so I'm sure others will have better input. [0] http://forum.palemoon.org/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=1700 http://forum.palemoon.org/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=1700
Negitivefrags 14y ago
They do support 64 bit platforms. With 32 bit binaries. If you have no need for more than 3gb of memory per process then 32 bit is a great choice. The pointers being half size is a non-trivial memory saving. I'd be happy if windows would let you use something like the x32 build target that linux got recently for extra registers though.
- josephlord 14y ago
  There will be a memory saving but the loss of access to better instructions and the registers would surely cost you some performance overall (may be benchmark and processor dependent)
- ZoFreX 14y ago
  32-bit processes can get 4GB of memory on 64-bit Windows: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/aa366778%28v=vs.85%29.aspx http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/aa36... I thought the limit was 2GB, which Firefox is getting dangerously close to. 4GB gives a lot more wiggle room, but I wonder how long it will last...
- keeperofdakeys 14y ago
  The problem is you need almost-contrived situations to notice these kinds of improvements, and a web browser deals with way too much I/O to fit into this category.
- alexkus 14y ago
  I'd rather not have to pollute a pure 64-bit install with a whole bunch of 32-bit libraries to run just one 32-bit app though. It's adds even more headache keeping those patched and up to date.
  - ibotty 14y ago
    remember that we are talking windows here. which libraries do you have to patch for firefox (i.e. those they do not ship and which are not in the core win os)?
raverbashing 14y ago
Let me just say something "Microsoft Windows XP Professional x64 Edition released on April 25, 2005" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_XP_Professional_x64_Edition http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_XP_Professional_x64_Edi... 7 years. Go to a store, see what kind of Windows is being shipped, if it's 32 or 64bits. If there's one version that has to be discontinued that version is the 32-bit version. Linux as well suffers with lack of 64-bit versions, it seems Mozilla started shipping them the other day (and is not very promoted) Computers already ship with more than 4GB memory. Leave 32-bit, it's been enough time already.
- easytiger 14y ago
  > Linux as well suffers with lack of 64-bit versions, Only in commercial or prop software
- davidw 14y ago
  When you pay for memory on a monthly basis, economizing on it may be a good idea: http://journal.dedasys.com/2008/11/24/slicehost-vs-linode http://journal.dedasys.com/2008/11/24/slicehost-vs-linode
  - raverbashing 14y ago
    Don't compare the Virtual Size of process. This is not how it works. And yes, running x64 on my Linode/ Also, see the limitations of MongoDB and Go for example, in 32-bit systems, they are very relevant.
    - davidw 14y ago
      I look at RSS in those numbers too, and they're lower on 32 bit systems, obviously, That is how it works. I'm not interested in MongoDB in the slightest, and while Go looks pretty cool, I'll wait for it to mature.
      - raverbashing 14y ago
        Sure, still, what really affects memory usage is data, not programs. So if memory is an issue in 64-bits, most likely it will be an issue as well in 32-bit. In some cases it may make a difference, but they're not that common. Even EC2 Micro supports 64-bits now Sure, 64-bit uses more memory, like 32-bit use more memory than 16-bit, or like programs in ARM (and maybe Thumb) take more space than programs in x86
digeridoo 14y ago
Itanium is the future.

This just reeks of dumb. Seriously guys, support 64 bit platforms or perish.

by bifrost 14y ago

This just reeks of dumb. Seriously guys, support 64 bit platforms or perish.

Have you noticed any tangible benefit to using a 64-bit build over a 32-bit one? Performance of the current x64 builds as measured by responsiveness and javascript benchmarks is about on-par with the 32-bit version for most things; the performance and even compilation of plugins is however another matter entirely and the reason for using Firefox for me over another solution is almost always the plugins available. I have been using PaleMoon builds and from what I gather the source tree is not being tombstoned, just the nightly builds. [0] The reasons given for crashes (driver/component out-of-tree bugs) make sense but I'm not really involved in the development or testing so I'm sure others will have better input. [0] http://forum.palemoon.org/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=1700 http://forum.palemoon.org/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=1700

Negitivefrags 14y ago

They do support 64 bit platforms. With 32 bit binaries. If you have no need for more than 3gb of memory per process then 32 bit is a great choice. The pointers being half size is a non-trivial memory saving. I'd be happy if windows would let you use something like the x32 build target that linux got recently for extra registers though.

josephlord 14y ago
There will be a memory saving but the loss of access to better instructions and the registers would surely cost you some performance overall (may be benchmark and processor dependent)
ZoFreX 14y ago
32-bit processes can get 4GB of memory on 64-bit Windows: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/aa366778%28v=vs.85%29.aspx http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/aa36... I thought the limit was 2GB, which Firefox is getting dangerously close to. 4GB gives a lot more wiggle room, but I wonder how long it will last...
keeperofdakeys 14y ago
The problem is you need almost-contrived situations to notice these kinds of improvements, and a web browser deals with way too much I/O to fit into this category.
alexkus 14y ago
I'd rather not have to pollute a pure 64-bit install with a whole bunch of 32-bit libraries to run just one 32-bit app though. It's adds even more headache keeping those patched and up to date.
- ibotty 14y ago
  remember that we are talking windows here. which libraries do you have to patch for firefox (i.e. those they do not ship and which are not in the core win os)?

raverbashing 14y ago

Let me just say something "Microsoft Windows XP Professional x64 Edition released on April 25, 2005" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_XP_Professional_x64_Edition http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_XP_Professional_x64_Edi... 7 years. Go to a store, see what kind of Windows is being shipped, if it's 32 or 64bits. If there's one version that has to be discontinued that version is the 32-bit version. Linux as well suffers with lack of 64-bit versions, it seems Mozilla started shipping them the other day (and is not very promoted) Computers already ship with more than 4GB memory. Leave 32-bit, it's been enough time already.

easytiger 14y ago
> Linux as well suffers with lack of 64-bit versions, Only in commercial or prop software
davidw 14y ago
When you pay for memory on a monthly basis, economizing on it may be a good idea: http://journal.dedasys.com/2008/11/24/slicehost-vs-linode http://journal.dedasys.com/2008/11/24/slicehost-vs-linode
- raverbashing 14y ago
  Don't compare the Virtual Size of process. This is not how it works. And yes, running x64 on my Linode/ Also, see the limitations of MongoDB and Go for example, in 32-bit systems, they are very relevant.
  - davidw 14y ago
    I look at RSS in those numbers too, and they're lower on 32 bit systems, obviously, That is how it works. I'm not interested in MongoDB in the slightest, and while Go looks pretty cool, I'll wait for it to mature.
    - raverbashing 14y ago
      Sure, still, what really affects memory usage is data, not programs. So if memory is an issue in 64-bits, most likely it will be an issue as well in 32-bit. In some cases it may make a difference, but they're not that common. Even EC2 Micro supports 64-bits now Sure, 64-bit uses more memory, like 32-bit use more memory than 16-bit, or like programs in ARM (and maybe Thumb) take more space than programs in x86

digeridoo 14y ago

Itanium is the future.