3 ms·

This isn't a black-and-white tactic. If you do this with people who know their stuff, they will just take it as you undermining them.

otterley 5mo ago
I think it depends on the individual and the culture. In a strong culture, engineers don’t their egos get in the way of healthy conversations and will be capable of defending their position against probing questions without it upsetting them.
- pdhborges 5mo ago
  How about answering the question and then add details later? IME that tends do work better.
  - sceptic123 5mo ago
    [dead]
- BeetleB 5mo ago
  > In a strong culture, engineers don’t their egos get in the way of healthy conversations and will be capable of defending their position against probing questions without it upsetting them. Everything is great when you don't have constraints. If I, however, have to spend 30-60 minutes justifying something to you every time I come to you, then you definitely are the problem. Using the wrong tool to solve a problem is not inherently problematic. If it's a one-off and it solves the problem, abusing an existing tools is about the finest engineering imaginable. Sure, if it's a long term solution to something important, I can understand the pushback. As other commenters have said: I'm all for a deeper discussion provided two things: 1. Both of us have the time. 2. You actually answer the question I asked. Not providing an answer is patronizing.
  - otterley 5mo ago
    > If I, however, have to spend 30-60 minutes justifying something to you every time I come to you, then you definitely are the problem That might be true if you’re skilled in whatever the particular subject matter is. But what if you’re not? Have you ever had a colleague that kept trying to solve problems the wrong way? Such people do exist. I don’t personally withhold answers, but when I suspect something is amiss, I ask probing questions in order to better understand the deeper problem underlying the question. Then I collaborate on a better answer, if one exists, with my colleague.
mathisfun123 5mo ago
Yes it's called being XYed and it's infuriating when some condescending person decides they know so much better than you that even your question is wrong.
- otterley 5mo ago
  What if they do, in fact, have the experience to “know better”?
  - mathisfun123 5mo ago
    What if they don't, in fact, have more experience than me? Edit: this is why tech people are insufferable socially. In any other walk of life assuming you know more than someone is a manifestly obvious faux pas.
    - otterley 5mo ago
      This is a hypothetical, not an assumption. I’m interested in your response to the hypothetical. As a side note, experience isn’t a unidimensional value that is directly comparable. You can have more experience than someone else in one dimension, and the other person can have more experience than you in a different dimension. I’d never argue with my mother about how to perform a blood draw.
      - mathisfun123 5mo ago
        I already implicitly responded: this should be handled like in any other walk of life - a few probing questions, maybe a preceding dialogue, etc. Admittedly tech people probably don't know how to handle this outside of tech either <shrug>
      - BeetleB 5mo ago
        You answered your own question: > experience isn’t a unidimensional value that is directly comparable. You can have more experience than someone else in one dimension, and the other person can have more experience than you in a different dimension. When two such people communicate, it's rarely clear who knows more. Typically, I know more about the task I'm working on, and he knows more about X, and that's why I'm asking him about X. Sure, if he wants to know what I'm working on - happy to engage, provided he doesn't withhold the information I'm asking for. Useful conversation relies on mutual purpose.
lelanthran 5mo ago
> If you do this with people who know their stuff, they will just take it as you undermining them. That's because they realise that other party is simply trying to answer the question they wished was asked instead of the question that was actually asked.

otterley 5mo ago

I think it depends on the individual and the culture. In a strong culture, engineers don’t their egos get in the way of healthy conversations and will be capable of defending their position against probing questions without it upsetting them.

pdhborges 5mo ago
How about answering the question and then add details later? IME that tends do work better.
- sceptic123 5mo ago
  [dead]
BeetleB 5mo ago
> In a strong culture, engineers don’t their egos get in the way of healthy conversations and will be capable of defending their position against probing questions without it upsetting them. Everything is great when you don't have constraints. If I, however, have to spend 30-60 minutes justifying something to you every time I come to you, then you definitely are the problem. Using the wrong tool to solve a problem is not inherently problematic. If it's a one-off and it solves the problem, abusing an existing tools is about the finest engineering imaginable. Sure, if it's a long term solution to something important, I can understand the pushback. As other commenters have said: I'm all for a deeper discussion provided two things: 1. Both of us have the time. 2. You actually answer the question I asked. Not providing an answer is patronizing.
- otterley 5mo ago
  > If I, however, have to spend 30-60 minutes justifying something to you every time I come to you, then you definitely are the problem That might be true if you’re skilled in whatever the particular subject matter is. But what if you’re not? Have you ever had a colleague that kept trying to solve problems the wrong way? Such people do exist. I don’t personally withhold answers, but when I suspect something is amiss, I ask probing questions in order to better understand the deeper problem underlying the question. Then I collaborate on a better answer, if one exists, with my colleague.

mathisfun123 5mo ago

Yes it's called being XYed and it's infuriating when some condescending person decides they know so much better than you that even your question is wrong.

otterley 5mo ago
What if they do, in fact, have the experience to “know better”?
- mathisfun123 5mo ago
  What if they don't, in fact, have more experience than me? Edit: this is why tech people are insufferable socially. In any other walk of life assuming you know more than someone is a manifestly obvious faux pas.
  - otterley 5mo ago
    This is a hypothetical, not an assumption. I’m interested in your response to the hypothetical. As a side note, experience isn’t a unidimensional value that is directly comparable. You can have more experience than someone else in one dimension, and the other person can have more experience than you in a different dimension. I’d never argue with my mother about how to perform a blood draw.
    - mathisfun123 5mo ago
      I already implicitly responded: this should be handled like in any other walk of life - a few probing questions, maybe a preceding dialogue, etc. Admittedly tech people probably don't know how to handle this outside of tech either <shrug>
    - BeetleB 5mo ago
      You answered your own question: > experience isn’t a unidimensional value that is directly comparable. You can have more experience than someone else in one dimension, and the other person can have more experience than you in a different dimension. When two such people communicate, it's rarely clear who knows more. Typically, I know more about the task I'm working on, and he knows more about X, and that's why I'm asking him about X. Sure, if he wants to know what I'm working on - happy to engage, provided he doesn't withhold the information I'm asking for. Useful conversation relies on mutual purpose.

lelanthran 5mo ago

> If you do this with people who know their stuff, they will just take it as you undermining them. That's because they realise that other party is simply trying to answer the question they wished was asked instead of the question that was actually asked.