4 ms·

It's crazy to me that Americans feel like they can't afford socialized healthcare, but performing tricks in $70M jets is something that must proceed at all cost

It's crazy to me that Americans feel like they can't afford socialized healthcare, but performing tricks in $70M jets is something that must proceed at all costs.

nacozarina 5mo ago
lol Americans did not invent kleptocracy, just having their turn in the barrel.
mschuster91 5mo ago
This is one of the pseudo-"arguments" I absolutely hate to read. The problem with America's healthcare is not the military, foreign aid or wars. It simply is not. The problem is the insane amount of waste in the US healthcare system. Y'all already spend much, much more per capita on healthcare than everyone else on earth by a wide margin [1], but get markedly lower returns in life expectancy [2]. Y'all need to cut the waste and middlemen out of your healthcare system, take that money and invest it into prevention (especially: fight against obesity - the US has a serious problem there costing a lot of money and causing a lot of suffering [3]), and you would get far better returns. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_health_expenditure_per_capita https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_hea... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expe... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obesity_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obesity_in_the_United_States
- samiv 5mo ago
  Americans will never be able to "solve" obesity at a national level in their free liberal "business first" world. After all obesity is a consequence of the biggest industry of all, the fast food industry. And a lot of profits are predicated on sick fat people from fitness to dieting to health care and pharmacy. There are very little profits to these giants if the population was slim and healthy.
  - kakacik 5mo ago
    Who cares about those companies, whole industries can come and go as markets dance their daily dance. The fact is, every single country on earth figured this out better than US. Which ain't so bad, but the stubbornness to even admit a failure due to some primitive patriotism or whatever and fix it is quite something. Well, you do you.
    - samiv 5mo ago
      It's not stubbornness. It's simply the outcome of a system that puts private profits before public good (in this case health, but you can see the same thing play out in other sectors too such as education). Everything is working as designed.
  - jaccola 5mo ago
    The counter argument is that the free market also allows lots of money to be made on anti-obesity drugs which incentivises them to be researched. Maybe we wouldn’t have had GLP-1 (at all or as quickly) without the huge market that is the USA. Not saying I fully buy this argument but it is at least plausible defence of libertarianism.
- oliwarner 5mo ago
  The waste is a byproduct of a many-layered insurance system forced between patient and provider. Everyone in the chain wants their pound of flesh. That problem will exist until the government provides a managed alternative and takes corporate profit out of healthcare. And that all comes down to the appetite for social spending. It's patriotic to funnel $tn to arms suppliers but only a Commie would want health, dental, mental and social care free for all. It's not a pseudoargument, it's pointing out the madness in US public spending. This money was available to blow stuff up, kill kids in another country. Why not spending something similar to improve the US domestically.
  - mschuster91 5mo ago
    > This money was available to blow stuff up, kill kids in another country. Why not spending something similar to improve the US domestically. Because there is already more than enough money in the US healthcare system. Just shoving in more money will not help anybody at all.
    - oliwarner 5mo ago
      I think we're possibly saying the same thing in different ways but the only way you take the money going to insurance companies and debt collectors is by providing a service that doesn't rely on them. Getting there is the hurdle. Forcibly nationalise insurers and their hospital networks? Price capping all the things? Doesn't sound very American. That leaves competition. To fund that, you need tax revenue. Eventually people will pay that tax instead of insurance but it's infrastructure, so it's front-loaded.
uyzstvqs 5mo ago
Yes because over in the rest of the world (or "the country of Europe" to be exact), we all have "socialized healthcare" where we pillage the wealthy and just spend shitloads of tax money on it. That would go very great, and is not a flawed idea whatsoever. /s
- boesboes 5mo ago
  yeah, it's pretty fucking great homey
infecto 5mo ago
One of the things that honestly gets boring is this style of comment (typically European in origin but not always!). It does not constructively start any type discussion and just becomes a cheap shots style of argument. Every country and culture has its own pros/cons. I always think of the classic examples, Europe lacks a lot of innovation in business and that’s partly attributed to lack of free movement of labor (high layoff cost). Now we could argue to the end of time if that is good or bad and it’s quite too simple minded to point fingers. Every entity has its pro/con.
- gibspaulding 5mo ago
  I admit the comment you’re responding to was low effort, but I don’t think the existence of cons in one’s own culture invalidates criticizing cons to some other culture. Problems don’t go away if everyone ignores them. Also “every culture has pros/cons” may be true, but it’s absolutely not true that the ratio of pros/cons is the same for every culture.
  - infecto 5mo ago
    I don’t think you should ignore them but two jets that collide at an air show has very little to do with the state of healthcare in America. As an American I completely dislike the state of the healthcare system but I also get tired of the cheap shot comments like this.
    - much-to-learn 5mo ago
      I think they absolutely are more connected than you think. So many problems in our current society are because everything is treated as being in its own vacuum. As an American, I’m tired of comments like yours. I’m not sure you understand what a cheap shot is. America isn’t on the ground while others are standing over them, kicking them. If anything, America is acting as if its limbs are all completely different organisms. The arm shooting the leg is certainly the leg’s problem, not the arm’s. /s if you can’t hear anything negative about America without making a fuss, maybe you should listen to the feedback and fix it?
nancyminusone 5mo ago
Come now, do you really think those are the same people?
- elil17 5mo ago
  People who think we can't afford socialized healthcare and people who love military airshows would stereotypically be the same people
deleted 5mo ago
[deleted]

It's crazy to me that Americans feel like they can't afford socialized healthcare, but performing tricks in $70M jets is something that must proceed at all costs.

nacozarina 5mo ago

lol Americans did not invent kleptocracy, just having their turn in the barrel.

mschuster91 5mo ago

This is one of the pseudo-"arguments" I absolutely hate to read. The problem with America's healthcare is not the military, foreign aid or wars. It simply is not. The problem is the insane amount of waste in the US healthcare system. Y'all already spend much, much more per capita on healthcare than everyone else on earth by a wide margin [1], but get markedly lower returns in life expectancy [2]. Y'all need to cut the waste and middlemen out of your healthcare system, take that money and invest it into prevention (especially: fight against obesity - the US has a serious problem there costing a lot of money and causing a lot of suffering [3]), and you would get far better returns. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_health_expenditure_per_capita https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_hea... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expe... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obesity_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obesity_in_the_United_States

samiv 5mo ago
Americans will never be able to "solve" obesity at a national level in their free liberal "business first" world. After all obesity is a consequence of the biggest industry of all, the fast food industry. And a lot of profits are predicated on sick fat people from fitness to dieting to health care and pharmacy. There are very little profits to these giants if the population was slim and healthy.
- kakacik 5mo ago
  Who cares about those companies, whole industries can come and go as markets dance their daily dance. The fact is, every single country on earth figured this out better than US. Which ain't so bad, but the stubbornness to even admit a failure due to some primitive patriotism or whatever and fix it is quite something. Well, you do you.
  - samiv 5mo ago
    It's not stubbornness. It's simply the outcome of a system that puts private profits before public good (in this case health, but you can see the same thing play out in other sectors too such as education). Everything is working as designed.
- jaccola 5mo ago
  The counter argument is that the free market also allows lots of money to be made on anti-obesity drugs which incentivises them to be researched. Maybe we wouldn’t have had GLP-1 (at all or as quickly) without the huge market that is the USA. Not saying I fully buy this argument but it is at least plausible defence of libertarianism.
oliwarner 5mo ago
The waste is a byproduct of a many-layered insurance system forced between patient and provider. Everyone in the chain wants their pound of flesh. That problem will exist until the government provides a managed alternative and takes corporate profit out of healthcare. And that all comes down to the appetite for social spending. It's patriotic to funnel $tn to arms suppliers but only a Commie would want health, dental, mental and social care free for all. It's not a pseudoargument, it's pointing out the madness in US public spending. This money was available to blow stuff up, kill kids in another country. Why not spending something similar to improve the US domestically.
- mschuster91 5mo ago
  > This money was available to blow stuff up, kill kids in another country. Why not spending something similar to improve the US domestically. Because there is already more than enough money in the US healthcare system. Just shoving in more money will not help anybody at all.
  - oliwarner 5mo ago
    I think we're possibly saying the same thing in different ways but the only way you take the money going to insurance companies and debt collectors is by providing a service that doesn't rely on them. Getting there is the hurdle. Forcibly nationalise insurers and their hospital networks? Price capping all the things? Doesn't sound very American. That leaves competition. To fund that, you need tax revenue. Eventually people will pay that tax instead of insurance but it's infrastructure, so it's front-loaded.

uyzstvqs 5mo ago

Yes because over in the rest of the world (or "the country of Europe" to be exact), we all have "socialized healthcare" where we pillage the wealthy and just spend shitloads of tax money on it. That would go very great, and is not a flawed idea whatsoever. /s

boesboes 5mo ago
yeah, it's pretty fucking great homey

infecto 5mo ago

One of the things that honestly gets boring is this style of comment (typically European in origin but not always!). It does not constructively start any type discussion and just becomes a cheap shots style of argument. Every country and culture has its own pros/cons. I always think of the classic examples, Europe lacks a lot of innovation in business and that’s partly attributed to lack of free movement of labor (high layoff cost). Now we could argue to the end of time if that is good or bad and it’s quite too simple minded to point fingers. Every entity has its pro/con.

gibspaulding 5mo ago
I admit the comment you’re responding to was low effort, but I don’t think the existence of cons in one’s own culture invalidates criticizing cons to some other culture. Problems don’t go away if everyone ignores them. Also “every culture has pros/cons” may be true, but it’s absolutely not true that the ratio of pros/cons is the same for every culture.
- infecto 5mo ago
  I don’t think you should ignore them but two jets that collide at an air show has very little to do with the state of healthcare in America. As an American I completely dislike the state of the healthcare system but I also get tired of the cheap shot comments like this.
  - much-to-learn 5mo ago
    I think they absolutely are more connected than you think. So many problems in our current society are because everything is treated as being in its own vacuum. As an American, I’m tired of comments like yours. I’m not sure you understand what a cheap shot is. America isn’t on the ground while others are standing over them, kicking them. If anything, America is acting as if its limbs are all completely different organisms. The arm shooting the leg is certainly the leg’s problem, not the arm’s. /s if you can’t hear anything negative about America without making a fuss, maybe you should listen to the feedback and fix it?

nancyminusone 5mo ago

Come now, do you really think those are the same people?

elil17 5mo ago
People who think we can't afford socialized healthcare and people who love military airshows would stereotypically be the same people

deleted 5mo ago

[deleted]