4 ms·

I think it's less "nature knows better" and more "we usually don't know enough"

by TimByte 5mo ago

21asdffdsa12 5mo ago
It's also a inability to accept the cthullian horror built into nature. Sentient eating sentient, everything being at constant warfare with everything else- the Grass wars the trees for the light. Add to that, the likelihood that nature will adapt new defenses in our lifetime, by for example having animals propagate hyper-allergenic plant-species - and you can begin to grasp why humanity does not want to look at the real, rather at the idyllic paintings we made ourselves.
- noelwelsh 5mo ago
  There are plenty of examples of cooperation in nature.
  - 21asdffdsa12 5mo ago
    Which though, are not a sign of harmony- its more a sort of horrific balancing act at the abyss having clear winners and losers, the losers becoming cattle, organs or worse and usually they do not defect only because then some horror from the abyss eats the whole gametheory board and their abilities have atrophied -aka cooperation usually is a sort of slavery.
    - kergonath 5mo ago
      > its more a sort of horrific balancing act at the abyss having clear winners and losers No need to appeal to emotions this way. At the individual level there are only losers, and we all die. At the universe level, whatever happens, happens, and it’s up to us to find beauty in it.
      - rixed 5mo ago
        and it's up to us if those ugly old seals murder those pups or not :)
        kergonath 5mo ago
        Well, yeah. Murder requires intent and, at least in human populations where cannibalism is not a problem, the separation with predation is clear. It’s less clear in this cases where the killing also involves eating (parts of) the victim. We don’t understand why they do it, therefore we cannot really condemn this as murder, therefore whether we should intervene and what we should do are not obvious.
- rixed 5mo ago
  We make those idyllic paintings, we dream of justice and peace and cooperation, yet we are 100% part of nature.

I think it's less "nature knows better" and more "we usually don't know enough"

by TimByte 5mo ago

I think it's less "nature knows better" and more "we usually don't know enough"

It's also a inability to accept the cthullian horror built into nature. Sentient eating sentient, everything being at constant warfare with everything else- the Grass wars the trees for the light. Add to that, the likelihood that nature will adapt new defenses in our lifetime, by for example having animals propagate hyper-allergenic plant-species - and you can begin to grasp why humanity does not want to look at the real, rather at the idyllic paintings we made ourselves.

noelwelsh 5mo ago
There are plenty of examples of cooperation in nature.
- 21asdffdsa12 5mo ago
  Which though, are not a sign of harmony- its more a sort of horrific balancing act at the abyss having clear winners and losers, the losers becoming cattle, organs or worse and usually they do not defect only because then some horror from the abyss eats the whole gametheory board and their abilities have atrophied -aka cooperation usually is a sort of slavery.
  - kergonath 5mo ago
    > its more a sort of horrific balancing act at the abyss having clear winners and losers No need to appeal to emotions this way. At the individual level there are only losers, and we all die. At the universe level, whatever happens, happens, and it’s up to us to find beauty in it.
    - rixed 5mo ago
      and it's up to us if those ugly old seals murder those pups or not :)
      - kergonath 5mo ago
        Well, yeah. Murder requires intent and, at least in human populations where cannibalism is not a problem, the separation with predation is clear. It’s less clear in this cases where the killing also involves eating (parts of) the victim. We don’t understand why they do it, therefore we cannot really condemn this as murder, therefore whether we should intervene and what we should do are not obvious.
rixed 5mo ago
We make those idyllic paintings, we dream of justice and peace and cooperation, yet we are 100% part of nature.