5 ms·

One interesting lesson from airships is about disruption and how people take old assumptions into new paradigms. Today we're used to being on plans for short p

by gwbas1c 5mo ago

One interesting lesson from airships is about disruption and how people take old assumptions into new paradigms. Today we're used to being on plans for short periods of time. We get on, sit down, wait, and then arrive at our destination. Airships came about when long distance travel meant you were spending multiple days in a vehicle, either a train or boat. An airship was a place that was set up for you to spend a few days on it, so it was set up more like a boat, with a place to stay, lounge, and eat; than a plane where you don't stay on it for an extended time. We sometimes see this in new technologies where someone holds onto assumptions of the past.

u1hcw9nx 5mo ago
The eastward trips took 53 to 78 hours, it resembled more boat or train trip than flight.
- aaron695 5mo ago
  [dead]
c7b 5mo ago
I felt a bit similar about electric cars with a trunk in the front where the engine would sit in an ICE car. But that's more about esthetic expectations, like the first cars looked similar to horse carriages.
- cf100clunk 5mo ago
  VW Beetle?
- elzbardico 5mo ago
  But here the space also have the role of serving as a crumple zone in case of frontal collisions
  - CarVac 5mo ago
    If you can put something in it it doesn't count as crumple zone and the car has to be engineered with a separate crumple zone anyway.
    - cucumber3732842 5mo ago
      Collapsing trunks have been a thing since the 90s. There's no regulatory requirement for crumple zones. There's regulatory requirements for performance. The cheapest/easiest way to meet these is crumple zones. Your luggage and golf clubs aren't gonna do squat in a collision. The regulators don't care that about the one in a million chance that someone gets into an accident a) where crumple zones matter b) while hauling objects so solid they don't just round to "no effect" because they have bigger fish to fry and if you create a "standard loading" for the test the OEMs will simply design to that and basically create a bunch of work and expense for marginal benefit.
    - elzbardico 5mo ago
      Yeah, but not many people have the habit of hauling solid I-beams of steel in their "frunks". I don't really believe the average groceries load will add that much rigidity to this space as deny its function as a crumple zone.
- gwbas1c 5mo ago
  I've lost count of the number of people who I've had to explain that, on long trips, you don't "stop to charge." You charge where you stop to poop.
  - devilbunny 5mo ago
    I don’t dislike electric cars, but I don’t poop every 3 hours, and it doesn’t take 30 minutes to do so. When EVs can reliably (including charging infrastructure) do charging as fast as ICE refuels, with 300 miles/500 km between 20-80%, they will win with most people in the US and Canada. Otherwise, we just drive too far, too often. It’s not far off. But until then, it’s not truly a replacement for ICE. Yes, I really do drive for 4-5 hours without stopping, several times a year.
    - kleiba2 5mo ago
      > I don’t dislike electric cars, but I don’t poop every 3 hours, and it doesn’t take 30 minutes to do so. Clearly you don't eat enough fiber!
    - gmac 5mo ago
      Do you really find you can reliably sustain your full attention that long? My EV can do 3 – 5 hours on the motorway between charges (depending on weather conditions and speed), but to avoid fatigue I always want a break within 3 hours or so. And by the time I've parked, gone inside, queued up for and drunk a tea or coffee, used the facilities, and checked the next leg of my trip, that's half an hour and the car is ready to go again.
      - devilbunny 5mo ago
        > parked, gone inside, queued up for and drunk a tea or coffee, used the facilities, and checked the next leg of my trip You and I have very, very different approaches to driving long distances. I don’t get drinks, I don’t eat. So except for once, a couple of hours after departure, no bathroom breaks.l 5 hours between charges at a steady 75-80 mph (120-130 km/h) would be impressive range, though.
canpan 5mo ago
These places still exist, but you need to look for them. Here in Japan, some remote islands, you can travel overnight boat. I love those. There might be a speed boat or plane, but I love boarding the boat in the evening, everyone feels like having a party, sleeping in a bed and arriving fresh in the morning. (If you are in Tokyo, the nearest is Oshima Island). There is also slow rail travel, with pretty trains, sleeper car and restaurant. I think Europe has sleeper trains too. I am also interested to go to Europe once by the trans Siberian railway.
- TacticalCoder 5mo ago
  > I think Europe has sleeper trains too. Europe has sleeping boats too: you can go from, say, south east of France to the Baelaric island (like Ibiza) in 12 hours overnight.
  - tokai 5mo ago
    The Baltic has a bunch of overnight ferry routes too. Most of them are not very luxurious, but its a nice way to get both travel and sleep done in one go.
  - IncreasePosts 5mo ago
    I've taken the ferry from southern Italy(bari) to Croatia and back multiple times. It's a great way to travel. There's a camaraderie on a boat you just don't get on an airplane. Also helps that I can bring my car with me!
  - tialaramex 5mo ago
    I remember as a child using a sleeper ferry to get between Jersey and the British mainland. Politically Jersey is ours (it's not technically part of the UK but it's a crown dependency), but geographically it's basically in France. Seems like these days there is no overnight option but the long slow ferry from up the coast does take like half a day to get there and you can book a room so you can get some sleep.
  - jiri 5mo ago
    Yeah - I regularly go to Corsica from Italy or France, overnight. It's nice when you have to drive several hours to the port, but if I lived near the port, I would definitely go for day travel — it's much faster and way cheaper.
simonebrunozzi 5mo ago
> with a place to stay, lounge, and eat As clearly seen in the Indiana Jones movie number 3, with Sean Connery. Loved these scenes!
grishka 5mo ago
Long-distance trains in Russia are still like that. They often have a dedicated restaurant carriage. Though I don't know who would want to spend a week traveling from Moscow to Vladivostok on a train when you can just fly, and that'll be cheaper as well.

by gwbas1c 5mo ago

u1hcw9nx 5mo ago

The eastward trips took 53 to 78 hours, it resembled more boat or train trip than flight.

aaron695 5mo ago
[dead]

c7b 5mo ago

I felt a bit similar about electric cars with a trunk in the front where the engine would sit in an ICE car. But that's more about esthetic expectations, like the first cars looked similar to horse carriages.

cf100clunk 5mo ago
VW Beetle?
elzbardico 5mo ago
But here the space also have the role of serving as a crumple zone in case of frontal collisions
- CarVac 5mo ago
  If you can put something in it it doesn't count as crumple zone and the car has to be engineered with a separate crumple zone anyway.
  - cucumber3732842 5mo ago
    Collapsing trunks have been a thing since the 90s. There's no regulatory requirement for crumple zones. There's regulatory requirements for performance. The cheapest/easiest way to meet these is crumple zones. Your luggage and golf clubs aren't gonna do squat in a collision. The regulators don't care that about the one in a million chance that someone gets into an accident a) where crumple zones matter b) while hauling objects so solid they don't just round to "no effect" because they have bigger fish to fry and if you create a "standard loading" for the test the OEMs will simply design to that and basically create a bunch of work and expense for marginal benefit.
  - elzbardico 5mo ago
    Yeah, but not many people have the habit of hauling solid I-beams of steel in their "frunks". I don't really believe the average groceries load will add that much rigidity to this space as deny its function as a crumple zone.
gwbas1c 5mo ago
I've lost count of the number of people who I've had to explain that, on long trips, you don't "stop to charge." You charge where you stop to poop.
- devilbunny 5mo ago
  I don’t dislike electric cars, but I don’t poop every 3 hours, and it doesn’t take 30 minutes to do so. When EVs can reliably (including charging infrastructure) do charging as fast as ICE refuels, with 300 miles/500 km between 20-80%, they will win with most people in the US and Canada. Otherwise, we just drive too far, too often. It’s not far off. But until then, it’s not truly a replacement for ICE. Yes, I really do drive for 4-5 hours without stopping, several times a year.
  - kleiba2 5mo ago
    > I don’t dislike electric cars, but I don’t poop every 3 hours, and it doesn’t take 30 minutes to do so. Clearly you don't eat enough fiber!
  - gmac 5mo ago
    Do you really find you can reliably sustain your full attention that long? My EV can do 3 – 5 hours on the motorway between charges (depending on weather conditions and speed), but to avoid fatigue I always want a break within 3 hours or so. And by the time I've parked, gone inside, queued up for and drunk a tea or coffee, used the facilities, and checked the next leg of my trip, that's half an hour and the car is ready to go again.
    - devilbunny 5mo ago
      > parked, gone inside, queued up for and drunk a tea or coffee, used the facilities, and checked the next leg of my trip You and I have very, very different approaches to driving long distances. I don’t get drinks, I don’t eat. So except for once, a couple of hours after departure, no bathroom breaks.l 5 hours between charges at a steady 75-80 mph (120-130 km/h) would be impressive range, though.

canpan 5mo ago

These places still exist, but you need to look for them. Here in Japan, some remote islands, you can travel overnight boat. I love those. There might be a speed boat or plane, but I love boarding the boat in the evening, everyone feels like having a party, sleeping in a bed and arriving fresh in the morning. (If you are in Tokyo, the nearest is Oshima Island). There is also slow rail travel, with pretty trains, sleeper car and restaurant. I think Europe has sleeper trains too. I am also interested to go to Europe once by the trans Siberian railway.

TacticalCoder 5mo ago
> I think Europe has sleeper trains too. Europe has sleeping boats too: you can go from, say, south east of France to the Baelaric island (like Ibiza) in 12 hours overnight.
- tokai 5mo ago
  The Baltic has a bunch of overnight ferry routes too. Most of them are not very luxurious, but its a nice way to get both travel and sleep done in one go.
- IncreasePosts 5mo ago
  I've taken the ferry from southern Italy(bari) to Croatia and back multiple times. It's a great way to travel. There's a camaraderie on a boat you just don't get on an airplane. Also helps that I can bring my car with me!
- tialaramex 5mo ago
  I remember as a child using a sleeper ferry to get between Jersey and the British mainland. Politically Jersey is ours (it's not technically part of the UK but it's a crown dependency), but geographically it's basically in France. Seems like these days there is no overnight option but the long slow ferry from up the coast does take like half a day to get there and you can book a room so you can get some sleep.
- jiri 5mo ago
  Yeah - I regularly go to Corsica from Italy or France, overnight. It's nice when you have to drive several hours to the port, but if I lived near the port, I would definitely go for day travel — it's much faster and way cheaper.

simonebrunozzi 5mo ago

> with a place to stay, lounge, and eat As clearly seen in the Indiana Jones movie number 3, with Sean Connery. Loved these scenes!

grishka 5mo ago

Long-distance trains in Russia are still like that. They often have a dedicated restaurant carriage. Though I don't know who would want to spend a week traveling from Moscow to Vladivostok on a train when you can just fly, and that'll be cheaper as well.