5 ms·

It figures: Right before the COVID-19 outbreak, Trump dismantled the White House pandemic response team and pushed to downsize the CDC—later pulling out of the

It figures: Right before the COVID-19 outbreak, Trump dismantled the White House pandemic response team and pushed to downsize the CDC—later pulling out of the WHO entirely. A new Trump term, a new pandemic?

mschuster91 5mo ago
In this case I'd guess the DOGE cuts to foreign aid are a massive, massive contributor to the problem. A lot of third-world countries heavily relied on USAID et al to keep basic sanitation and healthcare going.
- rob_c 5mo ago
  [flagged]
  - disantlor 5mo ago
    theres also one about pennywise, pound foolish
    - rob_c 5mo ago
      which is the statement being made to cancel the money since after X years there are almost zero deliverables rather than being the a&e dept for the world, in countries where leaders have fleets of sports cars whilst their people die of situations not far from cholera.
  - mschuster91 5mo ago
    > how about countries with these risks take action to reduce these risks With what money? There's a reason they're dependent on USAID. > I'm sure there's a parable about teaching someone to fish rather than feeding them Unfortunately the priorities of USAID (and European foreign aid as well) aren't exactly aligned with that paradigm. It's the worst expressed in agriculture because we just dumped our excess production on Africa to keep our prices stable, but foreign aid being sustainable is a relatively new and not really widespread requirement.
    - rob_c 5mo ago
      > With what money? There's a reason they're dependent on USAID. How much does BASIC hygiene cost it's like manners. It's education (which is more than well funded at a "throw cash at it problem". > we just dumped our excess production Well in a nutshell, yes we'd dumping quite a lot on Africa, that doesn't mean we should shore up the system with yet another western derived screw-up. At this point I'll go for the good old star trek perspective of impacting a cultures development by suddenly advancing their technological position.
      - thunderfork 5mo ago
        Having clean water access, etc., is a little bit more than "education", in practice
        rob_c 5mo ago
        Water + heat + sieve Unless you have industrial pollutants in which case you also have someone to blame... We didn't get this far as a species being that ignorant
  - throw1234567891 5mo ago
    If them not fishing means your people are at risk, you go and teach them to fish.
    - rob_c 5mo ago
      No, it raises the question of what is going wrong if you've spent the last x years teaching them to fish and they still refuse to. Either your approach, their willingness or something else has clearly gone wrong here.
      - throw1234567891 5mo ago
        Them not willing to fish still puts your people at risk. At the end of the day you guys still haven’t managed to build the wall and keep “aliens” away…
        rob_c 5mo ago
        > you guys I'm a wonderful citizen of heir u-turn starmer unfortunately so plenty of wanting to clear the waterways here :P
  - JumpCrisscross 5mo ago
    > sure there's a parable about teaching someone to fish rather than feeding them This is less about feeding a neighbor than digging them a latrine so they stop crapping in your water supply.
    - drstewart 5mo ago
      Wow, why hasn't world leader China and progressive Europe stepped up to make up the difference? Don't they care about their own safety? They should be tripling funding to the WHO. This lies directly at their feet.
      - JumpCrisscross 5mo ago
        > why hasn't world leader China and progressive Europe stepped up to make up the difference? Why should we expect anyone to step up? The default state of diseases is that they are not managed. And as China (and maybe even Europe) do pivot, I'm not sure why they'd prioritise preventing it from spreading to Americans (we have troops stationed in the region) versus to their own homelands.
        drstewart 5mo ago
        So disease spread in Africa affects America, but disease spread in America doesn't affect China or Europe? >Why should we expect anyone to step up? Why should we expect the US to step up? Funny how ONLY the US has responsibility for safeguarding the world, but the supposed new world leaders don't. It's almost as if the double standard is off the charts.
        rob_c 5mo ago
        > Why should we expect the US to step up? Le all-mighty dollar, it tastes best when given freely no? > It's almost as if the double standard is off the charts. I agree. I love how the same people will typically call for US withdrawal from any/all military theatres; whilst promoting sending <FORCED> aid at the end of a needle. I think a lot of these people were of the "lock them up for their covid heresy" category... If this was China exerting influence I'm sure we'd start complaining there's poison in the needles, bribery and how they should go back and focus on China.
  - malfist 5mo ago
    How callously you blame the victims. Remember your humanity.
    - rob_c 5mo ago
      I'm not blaming victims, I'm blaming those in charge of helping the victims at the first order of blame. how dare you be so callous as to drop to an emotional attack as a discussion point. please look inwards at your sorry self.
  - lejalv 5mo ago
    [flagged]
    - mystraline 5mo ago
      Let me make this clear: To hell with your historical collective guilt machine. I honestly dont care what people did before I was born. I had absolutely no decision in anything of theirs. Had no choice in any of that. Nor did I enslave or torture or murder people. My parents didnt either. Their parents didnt either. And somehow, Im responsible for shit that happened hundreds of years ago? Whatever. I dont mind helping and working collectively for a human cause. But im also not going to be an emotional collective guilt tampon because people before I was born did bad things. Id say "Take it up with them", but theyre dead. Thats why you flail at anybody and try to make them feel responsible.
      - beej71 5mo ago
        Not feeling guilty and not caring are two radically different things in this context.
        mystraline 5mo ago
        First, there are no charges against me. I will not answer to idiocy like "your bloodline X generations back". I am not feeling guilty simply because I am not guilty. And I do not feel guilty about historical happenings I did not have a hand in. They are things to read about to understand how we got here. But caring? No. More like dispassionate historical context. I fight against shit like "Collective Historical Guilt". Liberals here in the USA use this crap, like in worthless land akcnowldgements but do absolutely nothing. Ive also seen a lot of republican and MAGA types also have their 'white' ethnicity weaponized. Its obvious when 1 side blames you on a demographic you cant change (skin color). You vote against them. I will never support collective guilt/punishment. And I will not 'care' about some historical wrongs.
        lejalv 5mo ago
        Let's say you likely benefit from the side effects. It's not guilt, but just a lil reminder we are all in this together. Also, we could talk about current colonialism: arms trade, mining, mercenary armies. Sure enough, if you close your eyes hard enough you can pretend your wealth is well earned and unrelated the ills of the world. It's rarely the case.
  - toast0 5mo ago
    USAID provided funding for a lot of stuff, but specifically with regards to infectious disease control, providing funding for infectious disease control in countries that don't have the resources or priorities to do it on their own addresses the risk that such diseases are not controlled and spread to the US and also the risk that such diseases spread and result in (negative) economic impact for the US. The disease control interventions really are a mix of teaching and doing. In acute situations, experts are brought in to do (some of) the things. But mostly it's training and outreach and supplying equipment to do routine disease control and surveillance of issues that need help.
  - dgellow 5mo ago
    > I'm sure there's a parable about teaching someone to fish rather than feeding them That's literally what USAID was providing. Both teaching fish AND also feeding them.
    - rob_c 5mo ago
      so left hand fighting the right by that logic, either the education/infrastructure work wasn't/isn't working or the aid is too appealing...
  - 1718627440 5mo ago
    How about the poor, just stop being poor?
    - rob_c 5mo ago
      Or the stupid stop being so loud
- zzzeek 5mo ago
  They are. This is why the billionaire tech class is complacent in this disaster. Musk is already a mass murderer due his illegal sabotage of USAID (estimates of 600000 deaths already [1]) this new outbreak adds to his death toll. [1] https://www.newyorker.com/culture/the-new-yorker-documentary/the-shutdown-of-usaid-has-already-killed-hundreds-of-thousands https://www.newyorker.com/culture/the-new-yorker-documentary...
- dadjoker 5mo ago
  [dead]

mschuster91 5mo ago

In this case I'd guess the DOGE cuts to foreign aid are a massive, massive contributor to the problem. A lot of third-world countries heavily relied on USAID et al to keep basic sanitation and healthcare going.

rob_c 5mo ago
[flagged]
- disantlor 5mo ago
  theres also one about pennywise, pound foolish
  - rob_c 5mo ago
    which is the statement being made to cancel the money since after X years there are almost zero deliverables rather than being the a&e dept for the world, in countries where leaders have fleets of sports cars whilst their people die of situations not far from cholera.
- mschuster91 5mo ago
  > how about countries with these risks take action to reduce these risks With what money? There's a reason they're dependent on USAID. > I'm sure there's a parable about teaching someone to fish rather than feeding them Unfortunately the priorities of USAID (and European foreign aid as well) aren't exactly aligned with that paradigm. It's the worst expressed in agriculture because we just dumped our excess production on Africa to keep our prices stable, but foreign aid being sustainable is a relatively new and not really widespread requirement.
  - rob_c 5mo ago
    > With what money? There's a reason they're dependent on USAID. How much does BASIC hygiene cost it's like manners. It's education (which is more than well funded at a "throw cash at it problem". > we just dumped our excess production Well in a nutshell, yes we'd dumping quite a lot on Africa, that doesn't mean we should shore up the system with yet another western derived screw-up. At this point I'll go for the good old star trek perspective of impacting a cultures development by suddenly advancing their technological position.
    - thunderfork 5mo ago
      Having clean water access, etc., is a little bit more than "education", in practice
      - rob_c 5mo ago
        Water + heat + sieve Unless you have industrial pollutants in which case you also have someone to blame... We didn't get this far as a species being that ignorant
- throw1234567891 5mo ago
  If them not fishing means your people are at risk, you go and teach them to fish.
  - rob_c 5mo ago
    No, it raises the question of what is going wrong if you've spent the last x years teaching them to fish and they still refuse to. Either your approach, their willingness or something else has clearly gone wrong here.
    - throw1234567891 5mo ago
      Them not willing to fish still puts your people at risk. At the end of the day you guys still haven’t managed to build the wall and keep “aliens” away…
      - rob_c 5mo ago
        > you guys I'm a wonderful citizen of heir u-turn starmer unfortunately so plenty of wanting to clear the waterways here :P
- JumpCrisscross 5mo ago
  > sure there's a parable about teaching someone to fish rather than feeding them This is less about feeding a neighbor than digging them a latrine so they stop crapping in your water supply.
  - drstewart 5mo ago
    Wow, why hasn't world leader China and progressive Europe stepped up to make up the difference? Don't they care about their own safety? They should be tripling funding to the WHO. This lies directly at their feet.
    - JumpCrisscross 5mo ago
      > why hasn't world leader China and progressive Europe stepped up to make up the difference? Why should we expect anyone to step up? The default state of diseases is that they are not managed. And as China (and maybe even Europe) do pivot, I'm not sure why they'd prioritise preventing it from spreading to Americans (we have troops stationed in the region) versus to their own homelands.
      - drstewart 5mo ago
        So disease spread in Africa affects America, but disease spread in America doesn't affect China or Europe? >Why should we expect anyone to step up? Why should we expect the US to step up? Funny how ONLY the US has responsibility for safeguarding the world, but the supposed new world leaders don't. It's almost as if the double standard is off the charts.
        rob_c 5mo ago
        > Why should we expect the US to step up? Le all-mighty dollar, it tastes best when given freely no? > It's almost as if the double standard is off the charts. I agree. I love how the same people will typically call for US withdrawal from any/all military theatres; whilst promoting sending <FORCED> aid at the end of a needle. I think a lot of these people were of the "lock them up for their covid heresy" category... If this was China exerting influence I'm sure we'd start complaining there's poison in the needles, bribery and how they should go back and focus on China.
- malfist 5mo ago
  How callously you blame the victims. Remember your humanity.
  - rob_c 5mo ago
    I'm not blaming victims, I'm blaming those in charge of helping the victims at the first order of blame. how dare you be so callous as to drop to an emotional attack as a discussion point. please look inwards at your sorry self.
- lejalv 5mo ago
  [flagged]
  - mystraline 5mo ago
    Let me make this clear: To hell with your historical collective guilt machine. I honestly dont care what people did before I was born. I had absolutely no decision in anything of theirs. Had no choice in any of that. Nor did I enslave or torture or murder people. My parents didnt either. Their parents didnt either. And somehow, Im responsible for shit that happened hundreds of years ago? Whatever. I dont mind helping and working collectively for a human cause. But im also not going to be an emotional collective guilt tampon because people before I was born did bad things. Id say "Take it up with them", but theyre dead. Thats why you flail at anybody and try to make them feel responsible.
    - beej71 5mo ago
      Not feeling guilty and not caring are two radically different things in this context.
      - mystraline 5mo ago
        First, there are no charges against me. I will not answer to idiocy like "your bloodline X generations back". I am not feeling guilty simply because I am not guilty. And I do not feel guilty about historical happenings I did not have a hand in. They are things to read about to understand how we got here. But caring? No. More like dispassionate historical context. I fight against shit like "Collective Historical Guilt". Liberals here in the USA use this crap, like in worthless land akcnowldgements but do absolutely nothing. Ive also seen a lot of republican and MAGA types also have their 'white' ethnicity weaponized. Its obvious when 1 side blames you on a demographic you cant change (skin color). You vote against them. I will never support collective guilt/punishment. And I will not 'care' about some historical wrongs.
        lejalv 5mo ago
        Let's say you likely benefit from the side effects. It's not guilt, but just a lil reminder we are all in this together. Also, we could talk about current colonialism: arms trade, mining, mercenary armies. Sure enough, if you close your eyes hard enough you can pretend your wealth is well earned and unrelated the ills of the world. It's rarely the case.
- toast0 5mo ago
  USAID provided funding for a lot of stuff, but specifically with regards to infectious disease control, providing funding for infectious disease control in countries that don't have the resources or priorities to do it on their own addresses the risk that such diseases are not controlled and spread to the US and also the risk that such diseases spread and result in (negative) economic impact for the US. The disease control interventions really are a mix of teaching and doing. In acute situations, experts are brought in to do (some of) the things. But mostly it's training and outreach and supplying equipment to do routine disease control and surveillance of issues that need help.
- dgellow 5mo ago
  > I'm sure there's a parable about teaching someone to fish rather than feeding them That's literally what USAID was providing. Both teaching fish AND also feeding them.
  - rob_c 5mo ago
    so left hand fighting the right by that logic, either the education/infrastructure work wasn't/isn't working or the aid is too appealing...
- 1718627440 5mo ago
  How about the poor, just stop being poor?
  - rob_c 5mo ago
    Or the stupid stop being so loud
zzzeek 5mo ago
They are. This is why the billionaire tech class is complacent in this disaster. Musk is already a mass murderer due his illegal sabotage of USAID (estimates of 600000 deaths already [1]) this new outbreak adds to his death toll. [1] https://www.newyorker.com/culture/the-new-yorker-documentary/the-shutdown-of-usaid-has-already-killed-hundreds-of-thousands https://www.newyorker.com/culture/the-new-yorker-documentary...
dadjoker 5mo ago
[dead]