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I’m pretty sure solar roof was introduced as a way to pump stock when Tesla was doing poor financially
by winfredJa 5mo ago
I’m pretty sure solar roof was introduced as a way to pump stock when Tesla was doing poor financially
- vasco 5mo agoAnd to misdirect the acquisition of Solar City, famous for being run by Elons cousins to basically pocket all the tax credits, but which was not going well.
- Veserv 5mo agoNah, Elon Musk faked the demo [1] so he could defraud Tesla investors into bailing out his cousins. [1] https://mansionengineer.com/2018/08/10/elon-musk-tesla-and-the-solar-roof-tile-fraud/ https://mansionengineer.com/2018/08/10/elon-musk-tesla-and-t...
- echelon_musk 5mo ago> Musk unveiled on October 28 at an event at Universal Studios’ back lot in Los Angeles, on an old residential set used in Desperate Housewives > There’s a reason that they announced the idea on a fake block in a fake neighborhood with fake houses! Interesting read.
- upofadown 5mo agoThe Steel Pulse idea actually sounds sort of possible...
- peterisza 5mo agoI think it was a genuine attempt but they failed to find a simple enough solution.
- moffkalast 5mo agoInvisible solar is a genuine use case in areas with shitty power tripping HOAs, but even regular solar takes a decade to break even, so if you sell something like that at inflated Tesla level prices then they simply never will and there is no reason to buy them in the first place.
- peterisza 5mo agoWhat is a HOAs?
- gabrielsroka 5mo agoHomeowners' associations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeowner_association https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeowner_association
- hvb2 5mo agoThat's where regulation comes in. California for example made it almost impossible for a HOA to block. You're not allowed to add more than $1K to the project with your 'requirements'
- cianmm 5mo agoMy solar install took about 4.5 years to break even, which I understand is maybe a bit below average for where I live (Ireland).
- rgblambda 5mo agoAlthough isn't there an Irish government grant to help cover the cost of the panel + installation? That would make comparing break even times across countries quite difficult.
- hdgvhicv 5mo agoCertainly isn’t today. In the U.K. solar panels have about a 14 month payback, no incentives other Thant hey are currently tax free (like food. Electric from the grid has a 5% tax) On top of that there’s an inverter, and if you can’t use all the power immediately you’d need a battery too, which tends to increase the cost. The biggest cost though is installation.
- rgblambda 5mo agoI imagine the costs of purchasing and installing the panels in the UK are similar, but in Ireland there's definitely grants: https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/housing-grants-and-schemes/grants-for-home-renovations-and-improvements/grants-for-solar-panels/ https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/housing-grants... You do make a good point about VAT on electricity bills also being a factor in the break even calculation. In Ireland it's 9% and that's a temporary cost of living measure and will revert to 13.5% in 2030.
- HerbManic 5mo agoIt think they under estimate the 'Green bling' factor. For many people if they are going to get solar, they want the neighbours to know. Got to get that virtue signalling in. Not saying it is a huge factor but it is there.
- HerbManic 5mo agoSorry I see I am being down voted. Understandable, I do come off a little like a jerk there. I am not anti solar in the least, I just kind it really fascinating how some folks who are very well meaning, also tend to love that they can show off their goodies. I wish it wasn't the case but alas this is how some folks are.
- bruce511 5mo agoYou're not supposed to be down-voted simply because folk "agree or not". Honestly, I don't agree with you though. Yes, there are ways for folk to signal virtue, and that happens, but I don't think solar power is one of those. Frankly the utility, and financial, returns are just too high. Obviously ymmv with regard to returns, but I'm getting 16% on capital invested (a number that keeps climbing as electricity costs rise.) That's decent enough that virtue-signalling becomes a meaningless goal. I guess folk might _like_ that they're not burning fossils to get electricity (I do) but the financials dwarf that.
- eichin 5mo agoJust because there's actual virtue doesn't mean there isn't also virtue signalling going on... especially when it might be (in your particular circles) more taboo to talk about the actual numbers than the "doing it for the environment" part.
- bruce511 5mo agoI guess it depends on what you mean by virtue signaling, and indeed on how much you care about "visible" things. And to what extent the people around you care. Where I stay solar is really common (probably > 1 in 10 has it.) Plus the Financials make it easy (if you have the roof and capital.) And here no-one really cares if you're green or not. The fact that it is green is a bonus. (Which i think most people don't care about.) I guess you can read virtue-signalling into anything you like, especially if it matters to you personally. I just don't think it comes into play here.
- wat10000 5mo agoI’d say they failed to make it cheap enough, although maybe that goes with “simple.” I needed a roof replacement around the time when this looked like a viable option, but there’s no way I was going to pay a substantial multiple over the price of a normal roof plus solar panels for their snazzy integrated roof.
- hwc 5mo agoAren't you supposed to find the solutions BEFORE you announce the product?
- peterisza 5mo agoThat's not what startup schools teach
- habitue 5mo agoI'm no Musk fanboy but I think this kind of maximally cynical take is tiresome. They thought it would work, they expended significant engineering effort and money making it real and producing it and selling it to customers. The simplest explanation is that they did all that and the market didn't want it. The economics of traditional panels outweighed the aesthetic advantages of tiles and they're pivoting. No conspiracy or fraud need be invoked.
- xingped 5mo agoYou're not entirely wrong on it being a maximally cynical take, but I think it depends on where the idea originated. Yes, they expended a lot on engineering to make it real, but you can do that with any idea. I think what matters was if it was a feasible idea put forth from a reasonable source or if it was another grand delusion from Musk that everyone just had to make as real as possible despite their own misgivings on the idea.
- queenkjuul 5mo agoImo basically this, the attempt to make it work is downstream of musk deciding it had to be attempted. Musk can decide to spend money on a project whether or not it's genuine or feasible. This seems a clear cut case of musk designing a bad product and engineers doing their best to implement it despite the nonsensical constraints
- alfiedotwtf 5mo agoOf course the market wanted it. I wanted it. My friends wanted it. But we couldn’t buy it because it was vapourware ! From this to self-driving cars in 2 years to tunnels that will change public transport… maybe Musk should prototype and see what’s actually possible before telling the market. I mean come on - it’s borderline fraud in order to pump stocks - there’s got to be stockholders that are forming class actions as we speak
- SXX 5mo agoBoth self driving craze and car tunnel madness is only possible at all because how car centric US mindset is. If you even try to suggest that people could instead use good public transport and pedestrian infrastructure they would look at you like you are some sort of crazy. Musk just takes car centric society pipe dreams and sell it back to them. Like OMG you transiting to work and can safely stay in your phone 99% of time. In other countries this called train or a bus. Solved in London with 1863 tech.
- ekjhgkejhgk 5mo agoEnron Musk.
- sieabahlpark 5mo ago[dead]
- PowerElectronix 5mo agoDidn't they "bail out" solar roof when tesla started making money?
- epolanski 5mo agoOr the 2019 Roadster scam to inject liquidity through preorders.