4 ms·

I disagree. You cannot even book appointments in a lot of banks today, a thing you could do in the 90s. Like that, a lot of services are unavailable without a s

by amunozo 5mo ago

I disagree. You cannot even book appointments in a lot of banks today, a thing you could do in the 90s. Like that, a lot of services are unavailable without a smartphone and its non-smartphone equivalent is not available anymore.

SoftTalker 5mo ago
Not my experience. I'm in the USA, and there are still bank branches everywhere, I'd say as many as ever and new ones are being built. In fact within a mile of my house the finishing touches on the latest new one (full remodel of a former restaurant building) are just about done.
- aembleton 5mo ago
  > I'd say as many as ever and new ones are being built. That's an amazing difference compared to the UK. My local town had 5 bank branches ten years ago, now there are none. Until 2 weeks ago we didn't even have a cash machine; fortunately there is one now. It is something that has rapidly changed in the last 15 years.
bdangubic 5mo ago
Why does this permeate the HN all the time. You can 100% function without a fucking smartphone. My Dad doesn’t have one, he has zero-to-no trouble going to the bank and paying his bills and just about every other imaginable thing. If there was something he could not do and there were repercussions for it he’d be calling an attorney to rectify the situation. It is crazy to keep reading this over and over on HN, so weird
- willio58 5mo ago
  Yep, many older people right now don’t have a smart phone and never will. As long as some younger people stay that course we should be fine. Hopefully we’ll see an increase of dumb phone adoption in a growing cohort younger adults. But the FUD spread in threads like this actually spreads misinformation and makes that less likely to happen
  - brewdad 5mo ago
    And those older people frequently have to ask someone in their life who has a smartphone to assist them. They still need a smartphone to manage modern life they just don’t happen to own the phone they need.
- pjmlp 5mo ago
  In Portugal you have to do that at the bank terminals, otherwise going to the counter implies paying a services tax, depending on the kind of customer one happens to be.
- spankibalt 5mo ago
  > "Why does this permeate the HN all the time." It's a bias, an in-bubble illiteracy effect, concerning the perception and analysis of realities (e. g. experiences) outside that bubble, mirroring an in-group's projections about an out-group. It is, in my decades of experience, a very common phenomenon in the IT sector. > "My Dad doesn’t have one, he has zero-to-no trouble going to the bank and paying his bills and just about every other imaginable thing." So far, that holds true for me as well (Germany). > "If there was something he could not do and there were repercussions for it he’d be calling an attorney to rectify the situation." The crux: the increasing friction brought on by rising technological entry barriers. In Germany you have at least the non-exclusion principle of Teilhabe (lit.: participation) which gives certain guarantees. But such achievements of democracy are continually under fire.
  - amunozo 5mo ago
    Well, no surprise that it works in Germany, but I am not so sure it will in the Nordic countries for example.
    - spankibalt 5mo ago
      And hopefully it stays that way in Germany. A state and its essential-to-life institutions and businesses (which includes cultural participation) need to be accessible to everyone. That includes people who don't own a smartphone, for whatever reason.
      - jjav 5mo ago
        It is vital that government services must not depend on anything that is not government provided. No government service can depend on having a product from a private corporation.
    - nonamesleft 5mo ago
      Nordic, works just fine, i only have an HMD 'Nokia' non-smartphone (i detest capacitive touchscreens, and my previous ungoogled qwerty android phone broke, waiting for my next one to arrive in 2026-12 or thereabouts). No QR-code-only restaurants that i have seen, and i would walk out without a word if that happened (even if i had a device that can do that). Bank does 2FAs second part with an SMS, first part is username, password and an otp code from a paper. Bank login is also a very common way of logging into governmental systems, but those only use the username, password and otp code, skipping the SMS, alternatively i could use an id card with a reader, state provides even Linux software for that. The housing companys winter car engine heating sockets operate with an app, or alternatively just opening the lid and setting the timer yourself. Additional data point: my dad, when he was still alive (-2025), had a smartphone but wouldn't use apps beyond facebook, did his banking by mailing in signed bills or at the bank in person, without an appointment.
- II2II 5mo ago
  Yeah, and lot of people assume that something doesn't exist because they aren't personally aware of it. Quite often there are people who are willing to serve those who don't make mainstream choices. Other times, it means that you simply have a different lifestyle from the mainstream. There's nothing wrong with that.
- rjrjrjrj 5mo ago
  Technically, sure you probably can spend a large amount of time, energy, and money to find alternative non-smartphone ways of navigating through modern life. Practically, you need a smartphone. Engaging an attorney != practical
  - SoftTalker 5mo ago
    That's the thing. The larger amount of time, energy, and money we spent on doing banking in the 1990s was real. The web, and then mobile apps, made a lot of that more convenient. But it's not impossible to live the old way. You can still write paper checks, go to the bank to make a deposit and get cash, etc. It used to be normal, everyone did it, now it seems extremely inconvenient for most people.
    - rjrjrjrj 5mo ago
      It is extremely inconvenient. Both because a dwindling minority of people do old things the old way; and because new things (eg Netflix and Uber) are designed for the new way, even if they don't absolutely require it.
    - aleph_minus_one 5mo ago
      > The larger amount of time, energy, and money we spent on doing banking in the 1990s was real. The web, and then mobile apps, made a lot of that more convenient. I wouldn't say so: when I go to the bank, I often combine it with grocery shopping, which I have to do anyway. So doing banking the old way is hardly an inconvenience.
    - pbgcp2026 5mo ago
      "You can still write paper checks" – greetings to our US brethren! :-) In EU you will meet a girl at the counter who can operate only bank "tap on" terminal and have no idea how to print anything or where the website is. Why? She doesn't care. She is paid same money if she does or doesn't. Wnant to complain? Here is the feedback form (QR code) ... Manager? She is ...
- brookst 5mo ago
  Because the real complaint isn’t “it's impossible to live without a smartphone”, it is “I want all of the conveniences of a smartphone without having one, and I want every business to cater to the small minority who don’t want to use a smartphone”. It’s like complaining that it’s difficult to travel to another continent if you don’t want to fly. I want to go from LA to Paris in 12 hours without getting on a plane!
- deleted 5mo ago
  [deleted]
- deaux 5mo ago
  It's crazy that you're so insulated inside your own bubble and close-minded not to realize that the degree to which smartphones are required in daily life differ massively across countries, and HN is a global place. The places where your dad would have trouble going to the bank and doing "every other imaginable thing" are real and exist. You're just not in one.
  - aleph_minus_one 5mo ago
    > the degree to which smartphones are required in daily life differ massively across countries, and HN is a global place. In some countries people are willing to fight much harder against being coerced to have to use a smartphone. The message should thus rather be: follow their example.
    - brandonr49 5mo ago
      It's easier to fight for additional rights when you start at a reasonably high baseline.
gib444 5mo ago
I walked into my bank the other day and sorted out something, without an appointment. Just joined an informal queue (no digital queueing system! The humans used their eyes and brain to remember who next ) Handed over my physical debit card so they could locate my account. What digital hellscape do you live in? UK here
epolanski 5mo ago
This. 1. My bank doesn't allow to go in person without an in-app taken appointment. 2. My nephew can't play football in his team, because the team has an app to book/signal your availability. No other way. 3. Half of restaurants in my area do not have non-QR code menus, they just don't. 4. McDonald's will make me pay the scam pricing you get without the app. 5. My doctor gives documentation only and exclusively in digital form, on a special application that doesn't even have a desktop equivalent. 6. My fiance's office badges are smartphone-based. You cannot enter otherwise. 7. All the software she uses at work requires frequent Google/Apple/third party authentication. 8. Increasingly more European airlines exclusively accept in-app check in and documentation. You cannot print it. Ryanair's one of them. I could go on for longer.
- ssttoo 5mo ago
  I recently skipped a concert at the YouTube theater in LA because my phone is too old for Ticketmaster or Hollywood Park apps. Even though you can go and buy a ticket at the box office they have to send you the ticket to the app. No option to print it or any non-app way.
  - epolanski 5mo ago
    Oh that true! I've been in multiple clubs/events that you can enter exclusively after having downloaded the app.
- troyvit 5mo ago
  > 3. Half of restaurants in my area do not have non-QR code menus, they just don't. Not knocking this list, the shit is real. But I just had a lovely imaginary conversation with a server asking them what they would recommend and then trying something brand new.
  - chias 5mo ago
    I've had this conversation for real. The server's recommendation was that I scan the QR code. That was my last time going to that restaurant.
svl 5mo ago
This might be country specific? Specifically dependent on laws in the fields of consumer-protection and keeping things universally accessible. I don't own a smartphone. I have never owned a smartphone. There are inconveniences, and big organizations definitely try to push you toward the way of doing things which has the lowest costs for them - but there are no actual blockers. There is always a path involving actual humans, and regular phone calls (or emails or paper forms). Reactions tend to be wistful variations of "I wish I could" or "but how do you?" - and it's really always about the most trivial inconveniences.
- amunozo 5mo ago
  To be honest, I never tried, but I see for example the removal of more and more procedures in person. In Spain where I'm from or Switzerland where I live it can be still manageable, but in the Nordic countries for example everything is digital and even cash is barely existent. A lot of payments are made by phone apps only.
  - usr1106 5mo ago
    I am from Nordic country. I did not use any cash, had no wallet for several years. It's not needed. After the US government acting like it does I mostly stopped using cards. Like with phone OSes a US-controlled duopoly. Cash does not to need to be used anywere, but cards can be avoided for weeks until I need to use it again. Most can be handled by cash or bank transfer without problems. For phones I have not any Google Android or iOS until a year ago. Nowdays I have a Google work phone, but it's always in flight mode except when a pay my lunch subsidized by employer. I type this comment on my Sailfish device and I use a degoogled Android. Can cause minor inconvenienance occasionally, but rarely enough to turn on my work phone.
    - deaux 5mo ago
      > Cash does not to need to be used anywere, but cards can be avoided for weeks until I need to use it again. Your experience sounds interesting but I can't infer what this sentence means.
seb1204 5mo ago
You should be able to do all that from a computer at home right? The times I needed to do serious banking on the go are limited. Yes convenient, but replaceable with a 10 minute session at home using my Firefox or similar on Linux.

by amunozo 5mo ago

SoftTalker 5mo ago

Not my experience. I'm in the USA, and there are still bank branches everywhere, I'd say as many as ever and new ones are being built. In fact within a mile of my house the finishing touches on the latest new one (full remodel of a former restaurant building) are just about done.

aembleton 5mo ago
> I'd say as many as ever and new ones are being built. That's an amazing difference compared to the UK. My local town had 5 bank branches ten years ago, now there are none. Until 2 weeks ago we didn't even have a cash machine; fortunately there is one now. It is something that has rapidly changed in the last 15 years.

bdangubic 5mo ago

Why does this permeate the HN all the time. You can 100% function without a fucking smartphone. My Dad doesn’t have one, he has zero-to-no trouble going to the bank and paying his bills and just about every other imaginable thing. If there was something he could not do and there were repercussions for it he’d be calling an attorney to rectify the situation. It is crazy to keep reading this over and over on HN, so weird

willio58 5mo ago
Yep, many older people right now don’t have a smart phone and never will. As long as some younger people stay that course we should be fine. Hopefully we’ll see an increase of dumb phone adoption in a growing cohort younger adults. But the FUD spread in threads like this actually spreads misinformation and makes that less likely to happen
- brewdad 5mo ago
  And those older people frequently have to ask someone in their life who has a smartphone to assist them. They still need a smartphone to manage modern life they just don’t happen to own the phone they need.
pjmlp 5mo ago
In Portugal you have to do that at the bank terminals, otherwise going to the counter implies paying a services tax, depending on the kind of customer one happens to be.
spankibalt 5mo ago
> "Why does this permeate the HN all the time." It's a bias, an in-bubble illiteracy effect, concerning the perception and analysis of realities (e. g. experiences) outside that bubble, mirroring an in-group's projections about an out-group. It is, in my decades of experience, a very common phenomenon in the IT sector. > "My Dad doesn’t have one, he has zero-to-no trouble going to the bank and paying his bills and just about every other imaginable thing." So far, that holds true for me as well (Germany). > "If there was something he could not do and there were repercussions for it he’d be calling an attorney to rectify the situation." The crux: the increasing friction brought on by rising technological entry barriers. In Germany you have at least the non-exclusion principle of Teilhabe (lit.: participation) which gives certain guarantees. But such achievements of democracy are continually under fire.
- amunozo 5mo ago
  Well, no surprise that it works in Germany, but I am not so sure it will in the Nordic countries for example.
  - spankibalt 5mo ago
    And hopefully it stays that way in Germany. A state and its essential-to-life institutions and businesses (which includes cultural participation) need to be accessible to everyone. That includes people who don't own a smartphone, for whatever reason.
    - jjav 5mo ago
      It is vital that government services must not depend on anything that is not government provided. No government service can depend on having a product from a private corporation.
  - nonamesleft 5mo ago
    Nordic, works just fine, i only have an HMD 'Nokia' non-smartphone (i detest capacitive touchscreens, and my previous ungoogled qwerty android phone broke, waiting for my next one to arrive in 2026-12 or thereabouts). No QR-code-only restaurants that i have seen, and i would walk out without a word if that happened (even if i had a device that can do that). Bank does 2FAs second part with an SMS, first part is username, password and an otp code from a paper. Bank login is also a very common way of logging into governmental systems, but those only use the username, password and otp code, skipping the SMS, alternatively i could use an id card with a reader, state provides even Linux software for that. The housing companys winter car engine heating sockets operate with an app, or alternatively just opening the lid and setting the timer yourself. Additional data point: my dad, when he was still alive (-2025), had a smartphone but wouldn't use apps beyond facebook, did his banking by mailing in signed bills or at the bank in person, without an appointment.
II2II 5mo ago
Yeah, and lot of people assume that something doesn't exist because they aren't personally aware of it. Quite often there are people who are willing to serve those who don't make mainstream choices. Other times, it means that you simply have a different lifestyle from the mainstream. There's nothing wrong with that.
rjrjrjrj 5mo ago
Technically, sure you probably can spend a large amount of time, energy, and money to find alternative non-smartphone ways of navigating through modern life. Practically, you need a smartphone. Engaging an attorney != practical
- SoftTalker 5mo ago
  That's the thing. The larger amount of time, energy, and money we spent on doing banking in the 1990s was real. The web, and then mobile apps, made a lot of that more convenient. But it's not impossible to live the old way. You can still write paper checks, go to the bank to make a deposit and get cash, etc. It used to be normal, everyone did it, now it seems extremely inconvenient for most people.
  - rjrjrjrj 5mo ago
    It is extremely inconvenient. Both because a dwindling minority of people do old things the old way; and because new things (eg Netflix and Uber) are designed for the new way, even if they don't absolutely require it.
  - aleph_minus_one 5mo ago
    > The larger amount of time, energy, and money we spent on doing banking in the 1990s was real. The web, and then mobile apps, made a lot of that more convenient. I wouldn't say so: when I go to the bank, I often combine it with grocery shopping, which I have to do anyway. So doing banking the old way is hardly an inconvenience.
  - pbgcp2026 5mo ago
    "You can still write paper checks" – greetings to our US brethren! :-) In EU you will meet a girl at the counter who can operate only bank "tap on" terminal and have no idea how to print anything or where the website is. Why? She doesn't care. She is paid same money if she does or doesn't. Wnant to complain? Here is the feedback form (QR code) ... Manager? She is ...
brookst 5mo ago
Because the real complaint isn’t “it's impossible to live without a smartphone”, it is “I want all of the conveniences of a smartphone without having one, and I want every business to cater to the small minority who don’t want to use a smartphone”. It’s like complaining that it’s difficult to travel to another continent if you don’t want to fly. I want to go from LA to Paris in 12 hours without getting on a plane!
deleted 5mo ago
[deleted]
deaux 5mo ago
It's crazy that you're so insulated inside your own bubble and close-minded not to realize that the degree to which smartphones are required in daily life differ massively across countries, and HN is a global place. The places where your dad would have trouble going to the bank and doing "every other imaginable thing" are real and exist. You're just not in one.
- aleph_minus_one 5mo ago
  > the degree to which smartphones are required in daily life differ massively across countries, and HN is a global place. In some countries people are willing to fight much harder against being coerced to have to use a smartphone. The message should thus rather be: follow their example.
  - brandonr49 5mo ago
    It's easier to fight for additional rights when you start at a reasonably high baseline.

gib444 5mo ago

I walked into my bank the other day and sorted out something, without an appointment. Just joined an informal queue (no digital queueing system! The humans used their eyes and brain to remember who next ) Handed over my physical debit card so they could locate my account. What digital hellscape do you live in? UK here

epolanski 5mo ago

This. 1. My bank doesn't allow to go in person without an in-app taken appointment. 2. My nephew can't play football in his team, because the team has an app to book/signal your availability. No other way. 3. Half of restaurants in my area do not have non-QR code menus, they just don't. 4. McDonald's will make me pay the scam pricing you get without the app. 5. My doctor gives documentation only and exclusively in digital form, on a special application that doesn't even have a desktop equivalent. 6. My fiance's office badges are smartphone-based. You cannot enter otherwise. 7. All the software she uses at work requires frequent Google/Apple/third party authentication. 8. Increasingly more European airlines exclusively accept in-app check in and documentation. You cannot print it. Ryanair's one of them. I could go on for longer.

ssttoo 5mo ago
I recently skipped a concert at the YouTube theater in LA because my phone is too old for Ticketmaster or Hollywood Park apps. Even though you can go and buy a ticket at the box office they have to send you the ticket to the app. No option to print it or any non-app way.
- epolanski 5mo ago
  Oh that true! I've been in multiple clubs/events that you can enter exclusively after having downloaded the app.
troyvit 5mo ago
> 3. Half of restaurants in my area do not have non-QR code menus, they just don't. Not knocking this list, the shit is real. But I just had a lovely imaginary conversation with a server asking them what they would recommend and then trying something brand new.
- chias 5mo ago
  I've had this conversation for real. The server's recommendation was that I scan the QR code. That was my last time going to that restaurant.

svl 5mo ago

This might be country specific? Specifically dependent on laws in the fields of consumer-protection and keeping things universally accessible. I don't own a smartphone. I have never owned a smartphone. There are inconveniences, and big organizations definitely try to push you toward the way of doing things which has the lowest costs for them - but there are no actual blockers. There is always a path involving actual humans, and regular phone calls (or emails or paper forms). Reactions tend to be wistful variations of "I wish I could" or "but how do you?" - and it's really always about the most trivial inconveniences.

amunozo 5mo ago
To be honest, I never tried, but I see for example the removal of more and more procedures in person. In Spain where I'm from or Switzerland where I live it can be still manageable, but in the Nordic countries for example everything is digital and even cash is barely existent. A lot of payments are made by phone apps only.
- usr1106 5mo ago
  I am from Nordic country. I did not use any cash, had no wallet for several years. It's not needed. After the US government acting like it does I mostly stopped using cards. Like with phone OSes a US-controlled duopoly. Cash does not to need to be used anywere, but cards can be avoided for weeks until I need to use it again. Most can be handled by cash or bank transfer without problems. For phones I have not any Google Android or iOS until a year ago. Nowdays I have a Google work phone, but it's always in flight mode except when a pay my lunch subsidized by employer. I type this comment on my Sailfish device and I use a degoogled Android. Can cause minor inconvenienance occasionally, but rarely enough to turn on my work phone.
  - deaux 5mo ago
    > Cash does not to need to be used anywere, but cards can be avoided for weeks until I need to use it again. Your experience sounds interesting but I can't infer what this sentence means.

seb1204 5mo ago

You should be able to do all that from a computer at home right? The times I needed to do serious banking on the go are limited. Yes convenient, but replaceable with a 10 minute session at home using my Firefox or similar on Linux.