6 ms·
Just to play devil’s advocate, isn’t it also possible that the preference for a monotonous diet is driven by gut makeup?
by dimes 5mo ago
Just to play devil’s advocate, isn’t it also possible that the preference for a monotonous diet is driven by gut makeup?
- stephenitis 5mo agoYou seed the gut with nutrients. having lots of fiber and a varied diet increases the number of species that an adult has which is between a couple hundred to a thousand or so. Our guts are generally dominated by a bunch of beneficial bacteria. which for many is not the case for a variety of social economic or behavioral reasons. Add in with explosions of bacterial populations due to alcohol or sugar and you can see how we can change our gut biome drastically from week to week.
- therobots927 5mo agoI’ve noticed I really need to keep alcohol and sugar consumption in check. Sometimes it seems like one drink is enough to kick off a gut ecosystem collapse, and other times my gut is more resistant to the effects. Definitely trying to increase fiber consumption significantly.
- swores 5mo agoHow are you judging the impact of things on your gut/microbiome?
- hapidjus 5mo agoToilet visits?
- jodrellblank 5mo agoHow is one judging a "gut ecosystem collapse" from toilet visits?
- kjkjadksj 5mo agoLoose and unsatisfying stool?
- krisoft 5mo agoHow do you know that is a “gut ecosystem collapse” as opposed to hypermotility? Or an overgrowth of the gut ecosystem? Or a problem with the intestinal lining? Observing that if you eat/drink something specific then you get the shits is valid. Concluding that it is due to a specific mechanism is not valid unless you have something objective like a test supporting that. It’s like if your train is late and you just conclude that it must be because the steam condenser’s gasket is leaking based on nothing. Maybe true, or maybe the conductor broke his leg, or there is a signaling failure.
- DANmode 5mo agoUmmm…because all of those symptoms you listed are symptoms of gut dysbiosis…? Why do you need to know what the mechanism is to avoid mistakes? - if something fucks you, don’t do it. Encourage others to do the same. Not a controversial take!
- pohl 5mo ago[Gut Flora Summit banner] “But what if it’s a big hoax and we create solid stools for nothing?”
- DANmode 5mo agoSeriously, though! This demand for peer-reviewed evidence in place of observation of known and basic mechanisms is out of control.
- jodrellblank 5mo agoIf you drop an ACME 100Kg anvil on your foot, you get a broken foot, and you can conclude "this fucked me, I won't do it again". But if you say "I suffered foot ecosystem collapse" and people ask you what that means and how you identified it, whinging about how people should stop asking stupid questions because all bad things are bad therefore they must be the same thing, is not helping anyone.
- formerly_proven 5mo agoSimple starches and sugars (the former being rapidly converted into the latter) are probably the most harmful ingredient once we exclude actual poisons. And they’re just as normalized with most food being primarily composed of them, even though normal people barely need them.
- Aurornis 5mo agoThe microbiome might have some modulating effect, but the fidelity of gut-brain axis communication isn’t so strong that our gut microbiome is driving us around with highly specific inputs. The theories for how gut-brain axis modulation works include altering the balance of nutrients that get absorbed and modulating the vagus nerve, primarily. For someone with autism it might be possible that altering some of these balances could make the condition better or worse, but that’s all theory without much foundation. What is known, however, is that diet has a massive impact on the microbiome. Even the mechanism for that is obvious: Bacteria thrive on different foods, so if you eat more of one class of nutrients and less of another then the microbiome proportions will adjust based on which ones thrive on that diet.
- dimes 5mo agoI’m not going to pretend to be an expert here, but I remember a study that found gut bacteria composition predicted whether or not an individual was chocolate-craving or not in individuals eating identical diets: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17929959 https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17929959
- mrtesthah 5mo agoIt makes sense for chocolate given that cocoa flavanols are prebiotic fiber for GABA-secreting bacteria which of course affects the parasympathetic nervous system.
- Aurornis 5mo agoThe paper didn’t say that the microbiome was driving food preferences. It measured some bio markers and some dietary preferences and claims some correlation. The correlation is that what you eat fuels the microbiome. So your diet influences the microbiome by fueling or starving different bacteria. Complex theories about causality going the other way through complex chains of flavonoids to bacteria to neurotransmitters to the parasympathetic nervous system sound impressive with all of the big words, but it’s such a complex theory that would need other testing to even begin to understand if there was something there. Testing the other direction is easy and obvious. You can grow many bacteria in a Petri dish and see that some grow better or worse with different nutrients.
- toddmorey 5mo agoYes! My son who has autism would eat anything we put in front of him until age 3, when his weight, appetite and health suddenly and alarmingly crashed. Ever since that episode, he's had a much more restrictive diet and food preferences. Night and day. They never successfully identified what happened. Just diagnosed it generally as failure to thrive.
- jtc331 5mo agoThere’s some research on sudden onset autism being treated with antifungals; so at least sometimes a sudden change may be the result of something very specific in the gut.
- Aurornis 5mo agoThere is not reasonable evidence supporting the idea that autism can be treated with antifungals. Case reports are unreliable due to placebo effect. The antifungal myth has been tested by too many well-meaning parents with no results.
- DANmode 5mo agoTelling people to just ignore microbes and the microbiome, to stop pulling levers when they are not enjoying their time, is medical injustice. How long ago was it you were in threads calling the treatment method in TFA an unfounded crackpot myth?
- DANmode 5mo agoAzole antifungals destabilize biofilms, often allowing the body to get a good run at any low-level chronic infections which have nested and protected themselves, able to leave the biofilmed region and wreak havoc - even if only intermittently. Very interesting, this impact of antifungals on longterm bacterial infections! Specifically known to be effective off-label for Bartonella.
- dathinab 5mo agono and yes autists have often a much much stronger need for habits and avoidance of change. This includes a change of, or a less repeting/habitual diet. The effect if applified due to autism being commonly comorbid with ADHD and hyper fixation on specific foods being a very common thing (not (mainly) caused by gut bacteria as the effect is too strong and too specific to be "just" a preference caused by gut bacteria) but this can lead to a imbalance of gut bacteria and that can have an reinforcing effect on wanting a even more monotonous diet, but in the end this is AFIK "just" a secondary reinforcing reason not the root cause
- saidnooneever 5mo agothis relies a bit on a healthy brain to make s good correlation. an unhealthy brain might make a bad diet just out of habit/compulsion rather than driven by their biology.
- deleted 5mo ago[deleted]
- yieldcrv 5mo agocouldn't it just be perpetuated, after the other occurrence too? just to play devil's advocate that it isn't an opposing possibility
- deleted 5mo ago[deleted]