4 ms·

As much as I like graphene it is literary running on google hardware (atm) and uses asop. Even if it is a really good option is you want to run degoogled and se

by gunalx 5mo ago

As much as I like graphene it is literary running on google hardware (atm) and uses asop. Even if it is a really good option is you want to run degoogled and secure android.

throawayonthe 5mo ago
Murena (/e/ os), Punkt, Volla use aosp
jasonvorhe 5mo ago
You don't need any Google stuff on it. Isolated Play Services is an option, so is Play Store. It's not installed ootb. I don't get why you'd prefer to run less secure options on hardware that isn't on par with Pixels or iPhones and expect to get a secure OS.
subscribed 5mo ago
I mean.... Android is aosp. And if you want to run degoogled GrapheneOS you just don't install Google services. Out of the box it does NOT contain any - but /e/OS ships with the privileged microG, which means that Android Auto or Google Play Store have privileged access to the phone. So I'm not sure how can you suggest GOS is less "degoogled" while not shipping anything but allowing to install sandboxed / constrained play services, while comparing it to /e/OS which ships with a privileged plug. Also, if you want to run a secure android, that's not /e/OS either.
- bornfreddy 5mo ago
  That privileged plug in /e/os makes push notifications work, and you can enable just those and leave Android Auto, G Play Store and whatnot disabled. Not much privacy risk - I think? On the other hand, while GOS is running Google services sandboxed, they are still running and have access to internet. If you try enabling them only when you need push notifications, they will break - notifications stop coming. Neither system is optimal - can we please get microG sandboxed on GOS, pretty please?
  - microtonal 5mo ago
    Ehm, microG on /e/OS is talking to Google all the time. They also use proprietary Google blobs for passing basic Play Integrity. /e/OS also gives a bunch of Google apps (including Google Maps and Android Auto) privileged access (you can find the signing key fingerprints in the source code of the /e/OS microG fork).
    - bornfreddy 5mo ago
      No Google Maps or Android Auto on my phones, so I don't care much about privileged access - they have none anyway. No, microG is definitely not talking to Google all the time, NetGuard would warn me if it did. I would assume it is not even running when I disable it (which is easily done, as opposed to stopping Google Services in GrapheneOS) - but to be fair I didn't actually validate that. I kind of like GrapheneOS otherwise, this is by far my biggest gripe. I can even survive the icons. But avoiding Google (and other big tech) is the reason I am not on a cheaper and more convenient phone with regular Android, so if GrapheneOS refuses to support an alternative to Google Play Services, I'm not too happy about it. If there are real problems with microG then I'm sure the authors would be interested in a better solution too.
      - akimbostrawman 5mo ago
        >No Google Maps or Android Auto on my phones, so I don't care much about privileged access - they have none anyway. You don't seem to understand how play service / MicroG work. Maps or Auto Apps aren't the ones having the privilaged access but Play Service and MicroG. >NetGuard would warn me if it did. I would assume it is not even running when I disable it Since play services/microg have higher privileges than NetGuard they could just bypass it. >But avoiding Google (and other big tech) is the reason I am not on a cheaper and more convenient phone with regular Android, so if GrapheneOS refuses to support an alternative to Google Play Services, I'm not too happy about it. If there are real problems with microG then I'm sure the authors would be interested in a better solution too. That doesn't make any sense at all. GrapheneOS by default has _0_ Google connections unlike LineageOS, /E/ or any other AOSP fork. MicroG is not an alternative to not using play services at all = actually avoiding Google, but a open source reimplementation that still has all the privacy and security issues of regular play services. GrapheneOS sandboxes Google play services only have the privacy issues since just like with MicroG you still connect to Google = not actually avoiding Google. The issue with no notification without play services can be easily fixed by not using privacy hostile apps which only work with them.

by gunalx 5mo ago

As much as I like graphene it is literary running on google hardware (atm) and uses asop. Even if it is a really good option is you want to run degoogled and secure android.

throawayonthe 5mo ago

Murena (/e/ os), Punkt, Volla use aosp

jasonvorhe 5mo ago

You don't need any Google stuff on it. Isolated Play Services is an option, so is Play Store. It's not installed ootb. I don't get why you'd prefer to run less secure options on hardware that isn't on par with Pixels or iPhones and expect to get a secure OS.

subscribed 5mo ago

I mean.... Android is aosp. And if you want to run degoogled GrapheneOS you just don't install Google services. Out of the box it does NOT contain any - but /e/OS ships with the privileged microG, which means that Android Auto or Google Play Store have privileged access to the phone. So I'm not sure how can you suggest GOS is less "degoogled" while not shipping anything but allowing to install sandboxed / constrained play services, while comparing it to /e/OS which ships with a privileged plug. Also, if you want to run a secure android, that's not /e/OS either.

bornfreddy 5mo ago
That privileged plug in /e/os makes push notifications work, and you can enable just those and leave Android Auto, G Play Store and whatnot disabled. Not much privacy risk - I think? On the other hand, while GOS is running Google services sandboxed, they are still running and have access to internet. If you try enabling them only when you need push notifications, they will break - notifications stop coming. Neither system is optimal - can we please get microG sandboxed on GOS, pretty please?
- microtonal 5mo ago
  Ehm, microG on /e/OS is talking to Google all the time. They also use proprietary Google blobs for passing basic Play Integrity. /e/OS also gives a bunch of Google apps (including Google Maps and Android Auto) privileged access (you can find the signing key fingerprints in the source code of the /e/OS microG fork).
  - bornfreddy 5mo ago
    No Google Maps or Android Auto on my phones, so I don't care much about privileged access - they have none anyway. No, microG is definitely not talking to Google all the time, NetGuard would warn me if it did. I would assume it is not even running when I disable it (which is easily done, as opposed to stopping Google Services in GrapheneOS) - but to be fair I didn't actually validate that. I kind of like GrapheneOS otherwise, this is by far my biggest gripe. I can even survive the icons. But avoiding Google (and other big tech) is the reason I am not on a cheaper and more convenient phone with regular Android, so if GrapheneOS refuses to support an alternative to Google Play Services, I'm not too happy about it. If there are real problems with microG then I'm sure the authors would be interested in a better solution too.
    - akimbostrawman 5mo ago
      >No Google Maps or Android Auto on my phones, so I don't care much about privileged access - they have none anyway. You don't seem to understand how play service / MicroG work. Maps or Auto Apps aren't the ones having the privilaged access but Play Service and MicroG. >NetGuard would warn me if it did. I would assume it is not even running when I disable it Since play services/microg have higher privileges than NetGuard they could just bypass it. >But avoiding Google (and other big tech) is the reason I am not on a cheaper and more convenient phone with regular Android, so if GrapheneOS refuses to support an alternative to Google Play Services, I'm not too happy about it. If there are real problems with microG then I'm sure the authors would be interested in a better solution too. That doesn't make any sense at all. GrapheneOS by default has _0_ Google connections unlike LineageOS, /E/ or any other AOSP fork. MicroG is not an alternative to not using play services at all = actually avoiding Google, but a open source reimplementation that still has all the privacy and security issues of regular play services. GrapheneOS sandboxes Google play services only have the privacy issues since just like with MicroG you still connect to Google = not actually avoiding Google. The issue with no notification without play services can be easily fixed by not using privacy hostile apps which only work with them.