4 ms·

No, nothing to do with Reform. Organised by Tommy Robinson. The guy Reform think is such a nutcase that they turned down a huge donation from Elon Musk because

by graemep 6mo ago

No, nothing to do with Reform. Organised by Tommy Robinson. The guy Reform think is such a nutcase that they turned down a huge donation from Elon Musk because Elon made it conditional on letting Robinson join Reform. Its hard to find anyone more loathsome than Tommy Robinson in British politics, but being horrible is not a crime.

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm 6mo ago
To Reforms credit while I do think they started off as a bit of a looney party that relied on theatrics they managed to evolve into a more mature party ever since Zia Yusuf joined and you see how the tone of Nigel Farage has already become more serious. To some that will look like they became "Conservatives 2.0" but I don't think we have another real conservative party left anyway.
- KaiserPro 6mo ago
  > ever since Zia Yusuf joined The same one that threatening concentration camps in areas that don't vote for them? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c362e9p385yo https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c362e9p385yo Farage is not the most extreme in his party. Sadly.
  - hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm 6mo ago
    Ironic. You are admitting that you yourself don't want to be near these people who are going to get put in detention centres (who would probably otherwise be free).
    - KaiserPro 6mo ago
      Can you please explain to me how you managed to divine my preference for immigrants from my post? I would gently point out that if the immigration system worked like it used to, then we wouldn't need large amounts of detention centres. For two years it was illegal to process asylum claims. This meant that the backlog stacked up, costing a fuck tonne of cash. More egregiously instead of sorting the problem. Various Home secretaries chose politics rather than building systems to track and efficiently process claims. Detention centres are a massive sign of failure. I don't want them anywhere, I want my money to be spent on sorting the problem not showboating how cruel we are to people we don't like. (Which I would point out is directly against biblical teachings)
      - graemep 6mo ago
        > Which I would point out is directly against biblical teachings Which politicians do you expect to follow Biblical teachings? As far as I can see all of the main are fundamentally opposed to Biblical teachings. Which politician can you imagine giving all they have to the poor, for example :) > Various Home secretaries chose politics rather than building systems to track and efficiently process claims. That is true. The system is a complete mess, highly inefficient, and ineffective in accurately assessing claims. > Can you please explain to me how you managed to divine my preference for immigrants from my post Maybe not you, but as I said in another comment it has made it awkward for some - the Green party in particular have been made to look hypocritical.
  - graemep 6mo ago
    It was a very clever move. It threatened to put detention centres ("concentration camps" is absurd rhetoric) in areas that voted specifically for the Green Party (not "don't vote for them" in general) that says asylum seekers are welcome, putting the Green Party in the position of saying they did not want them near their supporters. Interesting that your example of the dangerous racist extremist is a brown Muslim. Also interesting I got downvoted for a true purely factual comment. Says something about the people doing it.
chadgpt3 6mo ago
Would there be any point where a horrible person and 150k of his supporters marching would become a crime?
- graemep 6mo ago
  Not if they stuck to marching, no. If they turned violent, or deliberately intimidated people, then yes. Under UK law if they said certain things that are considered hate speech laws, then again yes. There are also laws around protests (where and when, legal mechanisms of bans, orders banning particular individuals from particular actions) so if anyone breached those, again, yes.
pjc50 6mo ago
Reform (Farage) got a different £5m under the table donation. Robinson is gutter racism. Farage is trying to be its respectable face.
- graemep 6mo ago
  Reform turned down a $100m donation from musk to avoid Tommy Robinson I assume the £5m did not come with similar strings attached. The Green Party is now a lot more racist. Have you not read of the comments coming out of people withing the party, particularly its newly elected local councillors? IMO Labour are more subtle, but are as racist as Reform. They use race to attack politicians in other parties - they portray non-white Conservatives as race traitors, for example. They have a white saviour outlook, and stereotype and condescend us poor inferior groups: remember the Labour MP who said James Cleverly was not properly black because his family are affluent.
  - ben_w 6mo ago
    All of them can be racist, but are you sure it is useful (or independently, accurate) to say they're the same? While Reform technically didn't exist at the time Farage had his "Breaking Point" poster and all it echoed from the mid 1900s, Farage was very much responsible for it and he literally owned Reform until very recently.
    - graemep 6mo ago
      I do not think they are the same, but right now I think the Greens the worst, and Reform about the same as Labour. I also think labour attitudes have more influence on their policy and wider culture so are more dangerous, because they come wrapped in claims to be be anti-racist. There are also smaller groups that are worse: Restore and the EDL. My real problem is with people who equate Reform with racism which is dangerous for two reasons. It gives racists on the "left" a free pass, and it ignores smaller but nasty groups on the "right". My biggest concerns are the Greens (who are likely to win a lot of sears in the next parliament), antisemitic independents, and Restore Britain who won all the seats the stood for (albeit in the same area) in the recent local government elections. Also an underlying attitude that it is OK to be racist about some particular group, or people in the wrong political parties.

by graemep 6mo ago

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm 6mo ago

To Reforms credit while I do think they started off as a bit of a looney party that relied on theatrics they managed to evolve into a more mature party ever since Zia Yusuf joined and you see how the tone of Nigel Farage has already become more serious. To some that will look like they became "Conservatives 2.0" but I don't think we have another real conservative party left anyway.

KaiserPro 6mo ago
> ever since Zia Yusuf joined The same one that threatening concentration camps in areas that don't vote for them? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c362e9p385yo https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c362e9p385yo Farage is not the most extreme in his party. Sadly.
- hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm 6mo ago
  Ironic. You are admitting that you yourself don't want to be near these people who are going to get put in detention centres (who would probably otherwise be free).
  - KaiserPro 6mo ago
    Can you please explain to me how you managed to divine my preference for immigrants from my post? I would gently point out that if the immigration system worked like it used to, then we wouldn't need large amounts of detention centres. For two years it was illegal to process asylum claims. This meant that the backlog stacked up, costing a fuck tonne of cash. More egregiously instead of sorting the problem. Various Home secretaries chose politics rather than building systems to track and efficiently process claims. Detention centres are a massive sign of failure. I don't want them anywhere, I want my money to be spent on sorting the problem not showboating how cruel we are to people we don't like. (Which I would point out is directly against biblical teachings)
    - graemep 6mo ago
      > Which I would point out is directly against biblical teachings Which politicians do you expect to follow Biblical teachings? As far as I can see all of the main are fundamentally opposed to Biblical teachings. Which politician can you imagine giving all they have to the poor, for example :) > Various Home secretaries chose politics rather than building systems to track and efficiently process claims. That is true. The system is a complete mess, highly inefficient, and ineffective in accurately assessing claims. > Can you please explain to me how you managed to divine my preference for immigrants from my post Maybe not you, but as I said in another comment it has made it awkward for some - the Green party in particular have been made to look hypocritical.
- graemep 6mo ago
  It was a very clever move. It threatened to put detention centres ("concentration camps" is absurd rhetoric) in areas that voted specifically for the Green Party (not "don't vote for them" in general) that says asylum seekers are welcome, putting the Green Party in the position of saying they did not want them near their supporters. Interesting that your example of the dangerous racist extremist is a brown Muslim. Also interesting I got downvoted for a true purely factual comment. Says something about the people doing it.

chadgpt3 6mo ago

Would there be any point where a horrible person and 150k of his supporters marching would become a crime?

graemep 6mo ago
Not if they stuck to marching, no. If they turned violent, or deliberately intimidated people, then yes. Under UK law if they said certain things that are considered hate speech laws, then again yes. There are also laws around protests (where and when, legal mechanisms of bans, orders banning particular individuals from particular actions) so if anyone breached those, again, yes.

pjc50 6mo ago

Reform (Farage) got a different £5m under the table donation. Robinson is gutter racism. Farage is trying to be its respectable face.

graemep 6mo ago
Reform turned down a $100m donation from musk to avoid Tommy Robinson I assume the £5m did not come with similar strings attached. The Green Party is now a lot more racist. Have you not read of the comments coming out of people withing the party, particularly its newly elected local councillors? IMO Labour are more subtle, but are as racist as Reform. They use race to attack politicians in other parties - they portray non-white Conservatives as race traitors, for example. They have a white saviour outlook, and stereotype and condescend us poor inferior groups: remember the Labour MP who said James Cleverly was not properly black because his family are affluent.
- ben_w 6mo ago
  All of them can be racist, but are you sure it is useful (or independently, accurate) to say they're the same? While Reform technically didn't exist at the time Farage had his "Breaking Point" poster and all it echoed from the mid 1900s, Farage was very much responsible for it and he literally owned Reform until very recently.
  - graemep 6mo ago
    I do not think they are the same, but right now I think the Greens the worst, and Reform about the same as Labour. I also think labour attitudes have more influence on their policy and wider culture so are more dangerous, because they come wrapped in claims to be be anti-racist. There are also smaller groups that are worse: Restore and the EDL. My real problem is with people who equate Reform with racism which is dangerous for two reasons. It gives racists on the "left" a free pass, and it ignores smaller but nasty groups on the "right". My biggest concerns are the Greens (who are likely to win a lot of sears in the next parliament), antisemitic independents, and Restore Britain who won all the seats the stood for (albeit in the same area) in the recent local government elections. Also an underlying attitude that it is OK to be racist about some particular group, or people in the wrong political parties.