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California is rather strict on emissions. Other states don't care. I used to work for my state's version of the DMV and the only public facing page where one co

California is rather strict on emissions. Other states don't care. I used to work for my state's version of the DMV and the only public facing page where one could report things was to report people who would not register their cars locally (many people who purchase very expensive cars chose to register them in Montana). There used to be a web page to report license plates that were worn and needed replacing (like the reflective coating wore off, or all the paint got scratched off).

kube-system 5mo ago
Vehicle regulation in the US is piss poor. Here's the full list of states that require all passenger vehicles to be inspected for safety and emissions every year: * New York * Massachussets * Vermont
- lacewing 5mo ago
  I used to live in Massachusetts. I'm not sure it's a benchmark to look up to. If buy a brand new car from a dealer, your next stop must be an inspection station - a pointless waste of time and money. But if your car is older than 15 years? You're no longer required to have an annual emissions test. Pretty backwards.
  - alphabeta3r56 5mo ago
    That's temporary though. Or at least was supposed to be temporary to prevent immediately disqualifying existing vehicles
  - embedding-shape 5mo ago
    > If buy a brand new car from a dealer, your next stop must be an inspection station Has the car never been inspected before, since it's new? Then it'd make sense that it'd be inspected before allowed on the road, not sure this is such a big deal?
    - jt2190 5mo ago
      Why would a brand new car not be road worthy? Is it common for new cars to be unsafe to drive?
      - embedding-shape 5mo ago
        How would you know unless you inspect them? I'd just assumed every car needs to be inspected, new cars after they're built, but never bought a new car so I don't know how it works. I guess the manufacturer then self-reports that the car is roadworthy after the construction? I'm currently sitting and thinking about importing a second-hand car from another country, neighboring country also in Schengen, EU and EEA, just like us, even if that car passed all their local inspections, I'm gonna have to make it pass through our local inspection before I can register it here. Kind of felt like it'd be similar with new cars, but also, I don't know.
        tremon 5mo ago
        > How would you know unless you inspect them? By making the seller lose their license if they sell cars that are not roadworthy? Why should the risk and liability be on the buyer?
        kube-system 5mo ago
        New cars are certified by the manufacturer to meet safety standards when built
- mmh0000 5mo ago
  Utah used to require safety inspections every year, but they eliminated them; there were no noticeable side effects [1]. "Safety Inspections" were generally just a grift for third-party repairshops to collect free money and I couldn't be happier that they are no longer a thing. Be aware that "safety" and "emissions" are different. Emissions testing is still required biannually for newish vehicles and yearly for older ones. [1] https://www.deseret.com/2017/3/9/20607904/lawmakers-remove-requirement-for-vehicle-safety-inspections/ https://www.deseret.com/2017/3/9/20607904/lawmakers-remove-r...
  - marysol5 5mo ago
    "Free Money" from what? If they don't need repairing, they can't get it? We have yearly inspections in the UK (twice yearly for any "public" carrying, like a taxi). If your vehicle is in working order you only pay the £39 fee
    - Spooky23 5mo ago
      If it’s due on June 1, most people show up at the last minute. So you have time pressure which makes you vulnerable to upsell. My girlfriend almost got swindled by this. She needed brake pads and rotors, and they tried to slide unnecessary fluid changes and other stuff. Like replacing a $14 air filter for $120.
    - pandaman 5mo ago
      Do you mean that 39 pounds are not money or that checking the ECU status requires 39 pounds in resources so the shop breaks even on that?
  - kube-system 5mo ago
    That’s a really shallow interpretation of the data. 1. The safety inspections were never rigorous to begin with. Everyone who drives a piece of shit car in a state with safety inspections “knows a guy”. And in many urban areas, you can just drive around without an inspection. 2. Police very rarely sit at the roadside doing root cause analysis after an accident. If somebody loses control of their vehicle, they write a report for insurance or at most write them a ticket for failure to maintain control. So of course you don’t see a measurable increase in accidents due to faulty equipment. It’s because they rarely look for faulty equipment after an accident. So they aren’t measuring it.
- fc417fc802 5mo ago
  Why should that be required? Let people do as they will and impose penalties for problematic behavior (including negligence). I lived in a state with safety inspections and AFAICT it was little more than yet another disproportionate speed bump for the poor and a complete waste of time for society at large. I do see the merit of inspecting larger trailers (such as for boats) once a year given the combined increased likelihood of incompetence and risk to life when things go wrong. But even then I think it doesn't actually accomplish much in practice. The time and effort would be better spent on targeted public education campaigns, possibly mandatory. For emissions, again who cares. Regulations imposed on the high volume manufacturers broadly solves all the issues that are easy to solve. The rest are either willful violations or collectors. The latter is technological in nature and inevitably gets grandfathered for both safety and emissions everywhere I've lived.
  - Retric 5mo ago
    For emissions there is often nothing visually wrong with the car. So you’d essentially be giving up on enforcement if you didn’t require everyone to get their car checked at least every few years. Doing it every year is IMO overkill. As to safety inspections it’s not a very large effect, but they do save lives and the expense is generally rather small. Yes it impacts the poor more, but that’s because getting unsafe vehicles fixed or off the road is kind of the point.
    - retatop 5mo ago
      I have never met anyone who properly fixed an emissions problem, and I think that's what GP meant by willful violations. Any car old enough to have emissions problems isn't worth enough to fix properly, so you cheat it by doing things like buying a spacer for the O2 sensor. Personally I'd be shocked if emissions inspections had a significant effect on total vehicle emissions, and I think that the most effective things are done at the manufacturer
      - inquist 5mo ago
        I'm just one person, but I replaced the catalytic converters on my FJ Cruiser so it would pass the emissions test
- pdntspa 5mo ago
  It's probably a much larger list if you expand it to every other year. Though that won't make for nearly as exciting a post. That reminds me, I am overdue for a smog check...
- kstrauser 5mo ago
  Safety inspections I’ve dealt with were largely regulatory capture for auto shops. Oh, your fender is rusty? Better replace that, even if this is your fishing wagon! CA doesn’t require annual smogs, but once your car is a certain age, it’s at least biennial. I just did ours last week.
- kortilla 5mo ago
  I wouldn’t say it’s piss poor in the entire US just because it is draconian in those 3 states.
  - marysol5 5mo ago
    "draconian" Jesus christ
    - kortilla 5mo ago
      yep, you might want to consider why those states are a minority. Reacting with incredulity to try to convince people a minority view is better is not good for whatever it is you’re trying to sell.
      - kube-system 5mo ago
        They're a minority because the prevailing attitude in the US is that the only way to solve transportation for the poor is to enable them to drive broken cars around.
  - kube-system 5mo ago
    It’s piss poor because you can go to any Walmart parking lot in this country and find vehicles visibly unsafe.
  - array_key_first 5mo ago
    I don't understand how desiring less air pollution and safer vehicles is draconian. Driving is a big responsibility; it's one of the primary causes of death for Americans and it's one of the primary causes of poor air quality. The reason we don't view it with the gravity it deserves is because driving is required. For most people, the options are drive or be homeless.
TitaRusell 5mo ago
Montana doesn't have cities large enough to notice the smog I presume?

kube-system 5mo ago

Vehicle regulation in the US is piss poor. Here's the full list of states that require all passenger vehicles to be inspected for safety and emissions every year: * New York * Massachussets * Vermont

lacewing 5mo ago
I used to live in Massachusetts. I'm not sure it's a benchmark to look up to. If buy a brand new car from a dealer, your next stop must be an inspection station - a pointless waste of time and money. But if your car is older than 15 years? You're no longer required to have an annual emissions test. Pretty backwards.
- alphabeta3r56 5mo ago
  That's temporary though. Or at least was supposed to be temporary to prevent immediately disqualifying existing vehicles
- embedding-shape 5mo ago
  > If buy a brand new car from a dealer, your next stop must be an inspection station Has the car never been inspected before, since it's new? Then it'd make sense that it'd be inspected before allowed on the road, not sure this is such a big deal?
  - jt2190 5mo ago
    Why would a brand new car not be road worthy? Is it common for new cars to be unsafe to drive?
    - embedding-shape 5mo ago
      How would you know unless you inspect them? I'd just assumed every car needs to be inspected, new cars after they're built, but never bought a new car so I don't know how it works. I guess the manufacturer then self-reports that the car is roadworthy after the construction? I'm currently sitting and thinking about importing a second-hand car from another country, neighboring country also in Schengen, EU and EEA, just like us, even if that car passed all their local inspections, I'm gonna have to make it pass through our local inspection before I can register it here. Kind of felt like it'd be similar with new cars, but also, I don't know.
      - tremon 5mo ago
        > How would you know unless you inspect them? By making the seller lose their license if they sell cars that are not roadworthy? Why should the risk and liability be on the buyer?
      - kube-system 5mo ago
        New cars are certified by the manufacturer to meet safety standards when built
mmh0000 5mo ago
Utah used to require safety inspections every year, but they eliminated them; there were no noticeable side effects [1]. "Safety Inspections" were generally just a grift for third-party repairshops to collect free money and I couldn't be happier that they are no longer a thing. Be aware that "safety" and "emissions" are different. Emissions testing is still required biannually for newish vehicles and yearly for older ones. [1] https://www.deseret.com/2017/3/9/20607904/lawmakers-remove-requirement-for-vehicle-safety-inspections/ https://www.deseret.com/2017/3/9/20607904/lawmakers-remove-r...
- marysol5 5mo ago
  "Free Money" from what? If they don't need repairing, they can't get it? We have yearly inspections in the UK (twice yearly for any "public" carrying, like a taxi). If your vehicle is in working order you only pay the £39 fee
  - Spooky23 5mo ago
    If it’s due on June 1, most people show up at the last minute. So you have time pressure which makes you vulnerable to upsell. My girlfriend almost got swindled by this. She needed brake pads and rotors, and they tried to slide unnecessary fluid changes and other stuff. Like replacing a $14 air filter for $120.
  - pandaman 5mo ago
    Do you mean that 39 pounds are not money or that checking the ECU status requires 39 pounds in resources so the shop breaks even on that?
- kube-system 5mo ago
  That’s a really shallow interpretation of the data. 1. The safety inspections were never rigorous to begin with. Everyone who drives a piece of shit car in a state with safety inspections “knows a guy”. And in many urban areas, you can just drive around without an inspection. 2. Police very rarely sit at the roadside doing root cause analysis after an accident. If somebody loses control of their vehicle, they write a report for insurance or at most write them a ticket for failure to maintain control. So of course you don’t see a measurable increase in accidents due to faulty equipment. It’s because they rarely look for faulty equipment after an accident. So they aren’t measuring it.
fc417fc802 5mo ago
Why should that be required? Let people do as they will and impose penalties for problematic behavior (including negligence). I lived in a state with safety inspections and AFAICT it was little more than yet another disproportionate speed bump for the poor and a complete waste of time for society at large. I do see the merit of inspecting larger trailers (such as for boats) once a year given the combined increased likelihood of incompetence and risk to life when things go wrong. But even then I think it doesn't actually accomplish much in practice. The time and effort would be better spent on targeted public education campaigns, possibly mandatory. For emissions, again who cares. Regulations imposed on the high volume manufacturers broadly solves all the issues that are easy to solve. The rest are either willful violations or collectors. The latter is technological in nature and inevitably gets grandfathered for both safety and emissions everywhere I've lived.
- Retric 5mo ago
  For emissions there is often nothing visually wrong with the car. So you’d essentially be giving up on enforcement if you didn’t require everyone to get their car checked at least every few years. Doing it every year is IMO overkill. As to safety inspections it’s not a very large effect, but they do save lives and the expense is generally rather small. Yes it impacts the poor more, but that’s because getting unsafe vehicles fixed or off the road is kind of the point.
  - retatop 5mo ago
    I have never met anyone who properly fixed an emissions problem, and I think that's what GP meant by willful violations. Any car old enough to have emissions problems isn't worth enough to fix properly, so you cheat it by doing things like buying a spacer for the O2 sensor. Personally I'd be shocked if emissions inspections had a significant effect on total vehicle emissions, and I think that the most effective things are done at the manufacturer
    - inquist 5mo ago
      I'm just one person, but I replaced the catalytic converters on my FJ Cruiser so it would pass the emissions test
pdntspa 5mo ago
It's probably a much larger list if you expand it to every other year. Though that won't make for nearly as exciting a post. That reminds me, I am overdue for a smog check...
kstrauser 5mo ago
Safety inspections I’ve dealt with were largely regulatory capture for auto shops. Oh, your fender is rusty? Better replace that, even if this is your fishing wagon! CA doesn’t require annual smogs, but once your car is a certain age, it’s at least biennial. I just did ours last week.
kortilla 5mo ago
I wouldn’t say it’s piss poor in the entire US just because it is draconian in those 3 states.
- marysol5 5mo ago
  "draconian" Jesus christ
  - kortilla 5mo ago
    yep, you might want to consider why those states are a minority. Reacting with incredulity to try to convince people a minority view is better is not good for whatever it is you’re trying to sell.
    - kube-system 5mo ago
      They're a minority because the prevailing attitude in the US is that the only way to solve transportation for the poor is to enable them to drive broken cars around.
- kube-system 5mo ago
  It’s piss poor because you can go to any Walmart parking lot in this country and find vehicles visibly unsafe.
- array_key_first 5mo ago
  I don't understand how desiring less air pollution and safer vehicles is draconian. Driving is a big responsibility; it's one of the primary causes of death for Americans and it's one of the primary causes of poor air quality. The reason we don't view it with the gravity it deserves is because driving is required. For most people, the options are drive or be homeless.

TitaRusell 5mo ago

Montana doesn't have cities large enough to notice the smog I presume?